Evan Kuterbach

Evan Kuterbach is the co-founder of Canyon Pickleball and a proud corporate dropout. Evan left his 8-5 job to start Canyon Pickleball, a lifestyle pickleball e-commerce brand. We get into how Canyon Pickleball came to fruition, the lifestyle of an entrepreneur, and some do's and don'ts to creating a brand from scratch. You can find their gear on their website canyonpickleball.com.

Transcript

Intro Song

Rob Valincius: We're live. Uh, I always say thirsty Thursday, so it's throwing my fucking shit off because this is going to be, I've been releasing episodes on Fridays now, you know, keep it, keep it, I guess more get ready for the weekend or whatever. Um, but this is the drink clock podcast. My name's Rob Valincius. I am the host CEO owner, whatever the fuck you want to call me.

I'm also the editor. And, uh, everything else for the show. Uh, and I have the pleasure of having with me now. I probably should have asked you this before I started and I was going to and I forgot. Uh, let me see if I can nail your last name. All right. So it's Evan Kutterbach.

Evan Kuterbach: That was so close. It's a Kutterbach.

Rob Valincius: Damn it. Ah, 

Evan Kuterbach: it was close.

man. It was close. It was close.

Rob Valincius: Uh, and you're the co founder of Canyon Pickleball. And, uh, as you like to say, a proud corporate dropout. Welcome to the show, man.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, man. I'm super excited to be here. I got my drink here. I got actually this, uh, Louisville slugger koozie. I got when I was out in Louisville. So it's,

Rob Valincius: Oh, nice.

Evan Kuterbach: one of my favorite koozies and I got a good beer, so I'm excited. Yup.

Rob Valincius: You know what gets people talking? Booze. You know? And, uh, I've had some interesting conversations. You know, after a couple of drinks, I was drinking old fashions for a while right now. We're just, uh, we're just sticking to some, some Tito's, you know, keep, keep it simple.

Um, but, uh, you know, let, let's get into it, man. Um, I gotta tell you, I, uh, growing up, how old are you, Evan?

Evan Kuterbach: 33.

Rob Valincius: All right. So you're, you're, I just turned 38. So we're like in that, in that range, we, we kind of grew up in a different era, you know, where. We were fucking outside like I was you know like that the thing was to play with fucking super soakers and you know drench each other With fucking water.

That's definitely was way too powerful for an eight year old to have

Evan Kuterbach: Yep.

Rob Valincius: and then you know, we were playing football and basketball and anything we could ride in bikes and That shit just doesn't happen anymore and you know, I look I'm a nerd I love video games I play I get up actually early on the weekends Before doing shit that I haven't done all weekend or all week to just game for a little while You know, I get a couple hours of gaming while the family's asleep um But like i've always was was one of those kids growing up and I was a fat kid dude.

I was a fat kid up until 12 and then I decided i'm like, all right, so no girls ever gonna date me unless I, you know, make lifestyle choices. So, uh, you know, I changed a lot of things. I lost like 80 pounds in three months 

Evan Kuterbach: Good for you. 

Rob Valincius: uh, people didn't, I, and it was between eighth grade and ninth grade. People actually didn't know who I was.

I lost so much weight, uh, when I got into high school. Um, but I attest that to, to, to, to football and basketball. I was big into basketball. Um, and I'm bringing that up because obviously. You started a pickleball company, right? And like most of, uh, you know, you own your website, great website, by the way. Um, a lot of it is like, you know, active living an active lifestyle.

Um, and you know, pickleball, before we get into it, let's talk a little bit about you. Cause I want to, I want to get to know who you were, um, you know, kind of growing up, you know, uh, were you an outdoor sports kid like me eventually? Um, and what got you to the point right where you were, At the corporate lifestyle.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, honestly, and like you said, you're you're 38. You said, right?

I think our generation really kind of has been really like the last generations. You know, I was just I was literally just on a podcast the other day and we were talking about this and. You know, my, my mom and dad would be like, go in the garage to me and my brother and say, find what's in there and go ahead and go play.

Right? And we'd

be out there for 10 hours. I mean, it wasn't a joke to say that we would literally be in our driveway for 10 hours making up games, making up things to do. Um, you know, that's, that, that's just not really the way anyone, you know, anymore. I mean, yes, I played video games a little bit like yourself growing up and stuff, but, um, yeah, I mean, we were, we were always outside doing things.

So, um, you know, for me, I grew up playing sports, you know, similar to you. I was, um, so I, I actually kind of had the opposite problem. I was, I was always like really thin. I was a really thin kid. Um, you know, people called me scrawny all the time growing up and I

hadn't really hit my 

Rob Valincius: I had that problem growing up, 

Evan Kuterbach: and it's, and it's so funny too, because, um, you know, I, growing up, I was, I was always kind of on like the smaller side.

Um,

now I'm, I'm, I'm six, three, about two 10. Like I'm a, I'm a bigger guy now, but I mean, I was. You know, probably five, six, five, seven, up until like my junior year of high school. So, um, growing up, I really didn't have the same, um, sports, like I wasn't chosen to be in the same sport that I wish I could have been.

Right. Like I wanted to get into

basketball. I wanted to get into football. Um, but it wasn't until my junior year when the football coach was like, wow, this kid who's six, three should be catching balls for me. And so I started playing football a little bit, but I was a baseball player my whole life. So.

Started playing baseball at a very early age. Um, I was a lefty pitcher, so I, I kind of committed to that. Um, got into, you know, kind of was always naturally athletic. So I played a little bit of everything. And I think honestly, like a lot of that has to do with me and my brother just playing sports. Like we had a hoop outside.

We, you know, we were pitching, we were, you know, throwing the football. We were, you know, hitting, you know, you just grabbed the ball and grabbed a racket and started hitting shit around. And, and, you know, eventually you had a game. So I always kind of had that athletic, you know, prowess, I guess, but, um, you know, when I got into college and then, you know, when I graduated college, I was always doing into murals, always kind of still doing stuff.

But what I really noticed, especially, I mean, like, it may be similar to you, but like, once I got into graduate college, you know, did the normal. Get a job, you know, eight to five. Like that's kind of the thing you're told to do. And it's the only thing I really knew. So once you get in that rhythm, it's so tough to just like actually get out there and do things right.

I mean, I, I did some five football leagues. I did some softball. I did that kind of stuff and it was a blast, but at the end of the day, like, you know, you're tired and it's just hard to actually like get out there to do something to keep your body moving. So, um, Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, for 10 years I was in the corporate world and, um, you know, it's like you, you had like your intramurals to look forward to at, on, on a Wednesday night, you'd go drink with your buddies and, you know, go, go hit the softball around.

But, um, you know, aside from that, I mean, it was, it was always tough once you left college to, to try to keep your body moving. So.

Rob Valincius: I mean, look, I work in an office now. And, uh, And I started there in 2015. And when I started, I was 160. 160.

Evan Kuterbach: Hmm.

Rob Valincius: I am now, and I lost 15 pounds, uh, because I cut back on drinking, but I'm 2, I'm 225 right now, but I gained, I averaged like 8 pounds a year. 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: in an office, because, like, like right now, like, we get, you know, I work in insurance, people send fucking, you know, donuts, 

Evan Kuterbach: A hundred percent. 

Rob Valincius: they'll buy us lunch, and then, you know, uh, we have reps that'll come in, and they'll take us out to dinner, and then, you know, we travel, and when you travel, you eat like shit, and, like, it's just like, you don't think about it, right?

So like, you know, 160 to 168, you're like, ah, it's eight pounds, right? Right. Right. Then you're 176. You're like, eh, it's just 8 pounds. And then before you know it, it's, you're, I'm, I'm, In order for me to not be obese, I need to lose, We just did the math, 54 more pounds. Okay? Now I've always been a chunky, like, Well, that's not true.

When I lost all the weight, I was like, I lost too much weight, I think, because I was like, in high school, I think I was like a hundred and thirty pounds. Like, I was like, real thin. Um, but, I think like, it's, and you know, I don't know, the doctors and the organizations that come up with these scales. I'm a short, stocky guy, so I think if I lost fifty five pounds, I would look anemic.

You know, um, but for me to technically not be considered obese, I have to lose 54 more pounds. Probably not happening. When you hit 38, bro, shit slows down. It's, you know, um, but yeah, yeah, I mean, dude, it's, it's, it's wild to think, but, uh, talk a little bit about your corporate life. Um, you know, and then, uh, talk about your decision to eventually say, fuck it, I'm not doing the eight to five 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I, you know, I, I kind of went an interesting route. So I, I worked in sports right out of college. Um, I had my degree in sports management thinking I was going to be able to, you know, run my own team one day and all this kind of stuff. It's funny. It's kind of come full circle. I need a pickleball brand, but, um, you know, I worked for the Phoenix suns for a year.

I worked for the Houston dynamo. Eventually it kind of realized that I wanted to make more money. And so I was always in corporate sales. And so I got into some bigger companies, worked for Canon, worked for Oracle, um, worked for a few smaller tech startups. But you know, over the course of 10 years, I mean, I was, You know, I was making great money.

I mean, it was the most money I ever made in my life. And, you know, I was at the time, like, you know, between 24 and 30, I was making just really good money, consistent money, but I was like, so unhappy all the time, all the time. I mean, I was, I had a short temper. I was like, you know, bailing on my friends and, and, you know, I was drinking pretty heavily because all I was doing was, you know, working a job.

I didn't want. And then I was going home on the weekends and I was drinking and then, um, you know, kind of just living that life. And so, um, really what was like the catalyst for me was, you know, About a, you know, I guess my, my daughter turns two in about a week and a half. And when she was about to be born, we were moving from Colorado to where I live now, which is Orlando, my wife's family is from Florida. And something just kind of switched in me when my daughter was about to be born. And I started thinking about like, what do I want to, what do I, what do I want her to see, um, in her dad? Like, what do I want her to be able to. Have as me in the relationship and

I realized I couldn't keep going down this path like I was again like even like with my partner with my wife like, you know, I was just so short tempered and just like, you know, I just wasn't happy.

And, um, I went on paternity leave. Our daughter was born. And when I came back from paternity leave, I told my wife, I was like, I'm going to I'm going to try to stay at my job. I'm really going to try. Like, I really want this to work. I made it three weeks, man, three weeks. And when I

came back from, when I came back from paternity leave, I told my boss, I said, look, like, I just can't keep doing this.

Like I need to make a change. And I left, um, really not with a ton of plan. Um, I, you know, I'll get into kind of what I did, but, um, you know, I, I basically was like, I got to kind of cut ties with this mindset because. I knew that if I didn't, if I kind of just like half in half out, I wasn't going to fully commit to actually figuring something out.

And honestly, you know what I was doing right after I, um, you know, right after I left the corporate world is obviously very different than what I'm doing now. But yeah, it was, I would say my daughter was really kind of the catalyst to, to start in that.

Rob Valincius: That's not the first time that I've heard. You know, like a kid being born and like it just changes your whole life outlook and mentality as 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's 

Rob Valincius: people that they specifically started their Their podcast specifically started their podcast so that if, you know, when their kid grew up, they had something they left behind for them to kind of like watch or see 

Evan Kuterbach: right. 

Rob Valincius: like, you know, and it's, that's a cute legacy, right?

Like, yeah, it's a podcast, a hobby, but you know, there's a lot of it. Like I'm, I'm almost at a hundred episodes. So if I left this behind for a kid, my kid, whatever, you know, they'd have a lot of time to think about it. You know, but after 100 episodes, you know who I am. 

Evan Kuterbach: It's an archive. 

Rob Valincius: tell, yeah, exactly. 

Evan Kuterbach: You know, and it's a time capsule. I mean, it's kind of the same thing. I always talk about like, you know, the reason I've got tattoos, right? It's stages of my life. It's a time capsule. It's, you know, what I see as important in my life. And yeah, it's funny. Actually, right before I hopped on this episode with you, I was putting my daughter down for bed and I was like, Um, I was like, all right, sweetie, you know, I'm going to see you tomorrow morning and I was like, you're going to be able to listen to all these podcasts one, one day, and you're going to laugh your head off when you hear all just like these, like weird, you know, things I say on podcasts.

So, uh, I'm sure her friends are going to, you know, look it up and they'll Google me and see it.

Rob Valincius: Well, hey, look, it's at least it's a podcast and not like an only fans, you know, 

Evan Kuterbach: true. That's true. It could be the

other way. It could be. Yeah.

Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: on the internet, but So when you made that decision, how scared were you?

Evan Kuterbach: Oh, I'm terrified. I mean, I'm, I'm still scared. Like, I'm still scared shitless, honestly. I mean, like, you know, I wake up every day and, you know, cannon pickleball, as much as I would love it to, it's not paying the bills, right? I still have other things I do on the side.

And, you know, I'm still scared, right?

I, I would say the hardest part Is getting past that mentality because again like for you know, 10 years almost 11 years working that same mindset I mean my first couple months I literally had like, you know job postings up where I was like maybe i'll just apply maybe i'll just see because it was great money and I knew it could go back and When you're kind of sitting on like this, you know, I built up a good career in sales and so I know I could go back That's really, really hard, right?

The stable benefits, stable paycheck. I mean, I haven't had a stable paycheck in almost two years. Like that's crazy. And it's such a hard mindset to get out of. So yeah, I'm, I'm still scared shitless today.

Rob Valincius: Well, plus you have a family, 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, exactly. 

Rob Valincius: it's a lot different, right? Like if it was just you, like if you're a 22 and it's just you, you could fucking do whatever you want. And I have a lot of young kids that listen to this. So it's like, You're listening to this and you're like, ah, fuck you. I could do it.

You know? Yeah. But the moment you look at it outside of just yourself because you have other people you're taking care of, or that's part of your family, it changes the whole dynamic.

Evan Kuterbach: A million percent. And, and, and honestly, it's, it's, it's that trap that you get into. I think once you also have a family is. You think that you'll have more time later. And I, and I, and I made that decision. Like, you know, I'm so fortunate that my wife, my partner, she's super supportive and all these endeavors.

Like she's, you know, we're on her health benefits. Like she's very supportive of this. And so I'm super thankful for that. But at the end of the day, like, you know, I told myself, look, I was making these excuses like our brain has this great, you know, thing where it can convince us that, you know, Oh, you'll have more time when the next kid is born or oh, you'll have more time when you know You turn 40 or whatever But it's like you're never gonna have more time like the only perfect time to just start something is just to start it and While I don't recommend people, you know quit their job like I did. I do think there's a lot of ways to just Get that mindset of like, I got to just take one step, right? Just take one step and try and like, see if the fucking thing works. Right. And just, you know, take the next step and take the next step. So yeah, it's like, you know, it, but it does change. Like there's that flip in your head as soon as you have a kid.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, look, I'll be the first person to tell you, I am a pussy with that. Um, I have a million ideas, there's a million things I could do, but I just love, uh, having this stability. Um, but I, like, I have I have my insurance license in 20 states. I have, uh, I'm a notary. I have, uh, I have a college degree for IT.

Uh, like I have a lot of shit and like I do nothing. I mean, I, I sell some insurance, you know, on the side and like, I do shit like that, you know, but like my, Look, my office is great. I, I, a lot of the people I work with, it's like family, you know, like my, one of the owners is like my second mom, right? But, If you ask me, if I saw myself, if I'm there another 20 years, if I'm going to be happy, probably not.

I make great money. Like, I can't complain, you know? Um, but at the end of the day, it's not, it's not really what I thought I would be doing. You know, it's, it pays the bills. Um, you know, I like the people I work with. It's not like I'm in a hostile environment, you know, but, um, I, I will tell you the most happy I was, was probably COVID.

Being able to work from home. 

Evan Kuterbach: Hmm. Oh, so you're in office now, right? Like full time or do you get some work from home?

Rob Valincius: yeah, it's, it's always in the office unless there's, you know, like a snowstorm or, you know, something crazy happens, but they're old school, they don't like to work from home because, you know, if there's, there was 40, if there was 40 of us working from home, you know, 10 probably fucked off and didn't do a goddamn thing.

So it, it, you know, ruined it for the rest of the company. Right. Um, but we do have regional reps now that. They work from home, but they're in different states. So I mean, it's there, but I was the most, I didn't have to deal with traffic. I didn't have to drive, you know, I actually probably worked more hours.

Technically I'm not bouncing at five o'clock on the 

Evan Kuterbach: I'm sure you did. Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: cause I have a 45 minute drive on top of it. So like I leave my house at seven 20, I get home at five 45, you know, so like I'm. I'm out for a very long time. Um, but you know, during, during COVID, I got to hang out with the, with the wifey a lot more.

Um, you know, I got to eat breakfast with her and we got to like 

Evan Kuterbach: Get shit done around the house. 

Rob Valincius: Get shit done around the house. I actually lost me because I was like working out while I'm on calls. 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: you know, I got to hang out with my dogs all the time. Like it was just it was a cool like 3 months and then, you know, uh, then they did like a hybrid thing for a little while and then everyone's back in the office.

But, um, I could see how. It would be very apprehensive for some people to just do that. And look, our parents did that, you know, they work jobs they didn't like and they dealt with it and that's what they did. And, um, that's what their parents taught them. You know, our generation is weird because it's like, we're in that middle place where it's like, you know, we were taught to, to go to college and have a stable job, but we're also growing up at a time where someone can use a webcam and make, uh, 200 grand a year.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: If they have a following, 

Evan Kuterbach: Can make 200 grand a month.

Rob Valincius: yeah. 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: I mean, especially if you're showing, you know more than just your face Um, all right, let's let's talk about uh, let's talk about canyon pickleball So let's start with the how and the why man. How how did you start it? And you know, why did you start it? I know you you uh, you mentioned your co founder.

How'd you guys link up?

Evan Kuterbach: yeah, yeah, so, so I got, I got into pickleball, it's, it's kind of a funny story. So I've been playing for about two and a half years, um, when I was living in Colorado, so two and a half years ago, um, literally like the month before I moved, a buddy of mine, uh, was like, Hey, you should come out and try pickleball.

You should see what it's about. And I was like, it sounds pretty stupid.

I was like, I'm not going to lie. It's got a stupid name. I saw the ball, like, here's the ball, right. You know, if everyone's watching the thing. And, um, you

know, I was 

Rob Valincius: you before you go into this You I know what pickleball is, but can you explain to the listeners because it's a lot of people Have deemed it more of an older person sport, but I gotta tell you it's it's not 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, so, so, yeah, so, well, and the average age now of a pickleball player in the U. S. I want to say is between 30 and 40. So that, and it used to be like 55. So we're climbing down, we're like, we're stepping down more and more. Um, so pickleball, I like to say, is a combination of a lot of sports, a combination of kind of tennis, combination of table tennis, a little combination of like badminton and racquetball, pretty much just think all the racket sports, paddle sports, and kind of put them into one.

Um, it's actually how pickleball got started was it was just, you know, made up from a backyard. Uh, and really, you can think of it like it looks like a tennis court. It's much smaller. You can fit one pickleball or excuse me, you can fit four pickleball courts on one tennis court. So you can really pack them in there.

Um, and there's some similar rules to tennis, like, you know, it's single balance, that kind of stuff. Um, you know, you can volley it out of the air. So when you watch pickleball, it's going to be a lot of similarities to like a table tennis and like a tennis. So, um, you know, this is again, for people watching, this is what a pickleball paddle looks like. So it's smaller, obviously, you know, you can see it in my hand. Um, this is what a pickleball looks like. It looks a little bit like a wiffle ball. So

hope that, hope that helps for the listeners.

Um, so, yeah, so. I got into pickleball right before I left. Um, when I moved to Florida, um, I mean, I'll be honest with you.

Like I was in a pretty dark place. I didn't really know anyone. You know, my wife had a lot of friends out here, family was here. I'd never lived in Florida. I mean, I've lived in a lot of places, but I didn't have any connections in Florida besides from my wife. And so I was pretty terrified. I was like, I, you know, I got this new kid, I got my wife and that's it. And so I was trapped. I mean, it felt like COVID again, where I was trapped in the house. Didn't really know what to do. Didn't know how to like. Meet people. And I literally just thought like, you know what? I just learned how to play pickleball. Kind of my buddy gave me a free paddle. Um, and then I was like, what if Florida is huge for pickleball?

So I was like, let's

just, what if I just go to a court and just check it out? So I showed up and was just like, Hey, I'm new. I just moved here. Um, don't really know how to play, but would love to kind of learn. And I'd started doing that like once a week. And then the once a week turned to twice a week turned to three times a week and started meeting more people. And it just, I, I became hooked. I mean, it's, it's kind of the classic, like if you Google pickleball addiction, this is literally a thing that people are addicted to because, um, it's very easy to pick up, it's very easy to learn. Um, the equipment is relatively inexpensive and, um, everyone is so welcoming. I mean, I like to say pickleball, and this is why honestly I started pickleball is. I wanted people to feel the same feeling I felt. So like when I stepped on the court, when I found this community of people, um, everyone was so welcoming. And it was like, you know, there was a 10 year old there. There was an 85 year old woman. There's an army veteran with a prosthetic leg. There's a 45 year old soccer mom.

And then there's people like me and my age. And we're all talking and we're talking about pickleball and we're all on the same court having a blast. Like, where do you fucking find that? Like, what sport can

you find that? And so all of that to say, um, when I left the corporate world and I started thinking about things, I kind of, in the back of my mind was like, pickleball could be something, but maybe it's too saturated.

Maybe it's going to be too hard. Like I've never run an e commerce store before. Like, I don't know the first fucking thing about running e commerce. So I was like, what am I going to do there? And, um, but then like, it kind of kept festering, kept festering. And I met my co founder actually through this like marketing mastermind that I was a part of. And he had messaged me and he was like, Hey man, um, you've been pretty active in the group. Like, have you ever thought about starting your own business? And I was like, yes, I have a, I have a notes app full of all these fucking ideas and I would love to start a business. Let's just start shooting the shit.

So the beginning of this year, you know, 2024, we just started like hopping on calls and just chatting. We were like, Hey, what about this? What about this? What about this? And we were just kind of shooting ideas. And eventually I was like, do you know much about pickleball? And he said, no. So I started selling them on it, telling him about it.

And he was like, that sounds fucking great. And I was like, right. Uh, and so we just started formulating this idea that maybe it could be pickleball. And then more and more conversations about March or April, we finally settled on pickleball. Um, and then, yeah, from there Canyon kind of fostered, we both love the outdoors. Um, our brand is all about giving back. So we donated a portion of sales to the national park foundation. We use. Fully sustainable packaging. All of our designs are based off of national parks, so they're super, super cool. Um,

Rob Valincius: awesome. 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah, yeah, yeah. So this one's off of Sequoia national park. Um, so yeah, so each paddle is inspired by the outdoors.

And so our whole mission is just getting people outside, get people moving, get people in their community. Um, so yeah, we officially launched on the 4th of July and it's just been a fucking blast since then.

Rob Valincius: That's a cool day. What was there a specific reason fourth of july or?

Evan Kuterbach: and honestly, like we were both pissed because we had a manufacturer error and we wanted to

launch in May to be ready for the summer.

But then we had to like, we had to pause paddle shipments because there was an issue with some of the paddles. And so we were like freaking the fuck out. It's our first like launch. So we, so we delayed it and then we did the 4th of July and yeah, so

Rob Valincius: So I'll tell you my pickleball experience I 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah. Hit 

Rob Valincius: never played pick I never played pickleball before I've heard about it. I work in the senior market with insurance and that's a lot of seniors play pickleball You know, it's like it's a sport. They can all get out get out of house They don't have to move as much as tennis and it's you know It's a unique experience and they can get some exercise and, um, two of the guys I work with, I was doing, uh, I was on a work trip.

Uh, we were going to Dallas. And they're like, look, the moment we, we land, we're going to have dinner. And then, um, the people were, uh, there to see and, and kind of hang out with, they're going to take us to play pickleball. I'm like, all right. I mean, I, I brought stuff to, you know, I brought running shoes and shorts, whatever.

And, uh, I'm, I'm definitely out of shape at this, at this point. And, uh, you know, we get to this place and it's called a chicken and pickle. So if you're ever in Dallas, 

Evan Kuterbach: Yep. I've heard of it. 

Rob Valincius: and Pickle. It is a fuckin cool place, 

Evan Kuterbach: It's like, it's like Topgolf for pickle ball for P

for people listening and like, and it's just like, you can drink, you can eat. It's a, it's a blast. I have not been to one, there's not one in Orlando yet, but there's supposed to be, but I've heard it's a blast.

Rob Valincius: It is, it is uh, a really cool experience. Like, um, they have pickleball courts inside, they have pickleball courts outside, they have like, other small little games and stuff, like, um, what's the, the game that you push with 

Evan Kuterbach: Oh, uh, uh, uh, Shuffleboard, 

Rob Valincius: Shuffleboard, like, really? And their food is ridiculous. I didn't get a chance to eat there because we ate dinner.

But, like, you're walking by with like a Nashville hot chicken sandwich that's like this fucking big. And I'm like, holy shit. One, I could not, at my age, eat that and then do exercise. You know, that's an eat and then take a nap 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

Rob Valincius: Um, but, um, So I played with, uh, and of course, the two guys I was with, they, the first time they played was like two or three months prior to that.

And they played at Chicken N Pickle with that same guy, cause he got them into it. So now they're like two or three months in and they're hooked. 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah, yeah, 

Rob Valincius: They got their own, they bought like, um, carbon fiber. Fucking paddles and you know, they know what they're doing. I've never done it before, you know, I probably haven't played tennis in Since high school, you know So I get on and you know, I'm still mobile, you know, I'm still okay So like I'm running around the only thing I could not do the only thing I couldn't serve.

I couldn't serve to save my life. Now the guys comforted me, and I don't know if they're being, if they're just being nice. They're like, look, you're playing way better than we did when we first started. They're like, the serve is the hardest thing, it's, you just have to, it comes with practice. And I just, I couldn't fucking do it, dude.

I felt like an idiot. I could, I could 

Evan Kuterbach: Every every time it came back to you you're like well, I'm gonna hit it into the fucking net again.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, uh, not even, I wasn't even getting to the net. I was just going fucking, I could not hit it in the zone, you know? Um, do you have any tips on that? Because that would probably help me.

Evan Kuterbach: know, it's funny. Um, of all the things that I struggled with when I first played the serve was for, was for some reason, the thing I picked up the fastest, I don't know why, but what I will say is focus on like hitting the ball. Don't focus on like looking right. Like a lot of people are like looking where they're hitting and then they hit it and they like screw up the hit.

I would also say, point your toe in the direction of where you're going to serve. And like, you can kind of. Pretty much aim, like, especially if, you know, it's got to go under hand. So if you're

aiming, it's, it's, it's similar to bowling, right? Like when you like let go, if you let go and it's straight, like your thumb or whatever, right.

That whole rule, whatever.

Um, similar thing in pickleball. So like, yeah, just, you, you just got to practice, honestly.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, it's um, I haven't played since, it was a couple months ago, but I'm also in Philly. So like, I, I, I, It's not like I've seen, I'd have to probably do some searching to find Pickleball here, and especially it's cold as shit now, so But like they're down, they live in Miami 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: You know, so they're like prime time, like, 

Evan Kuterbach: This is the time to play Pickleball.

is is right now in Florida. Like we are approaching like this is when all the tournaments happen. This is when like, you know, all the snowbirds from Philly and New York are coming down to Florida. Right? This is prime time pickleball season.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, yeah, that's what they were, that's what they were telling me. So, um, I'm mad that I didn't get a chance to play more yet. I think eventually I'll try, but I gotta lose some more weight first. I'm, uh, you know, it's, it's definitely one of those things where we need to continue on with that.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Valincius: So talk to me a little bit about, you know, How'd you come up with the concept?

Like, what, um, you know, did you have some other concepts that you, you were, thought you were going to go with? And then, you know, you ended up going with Canyon. Like, where did the idea come up with, 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. So, um, yeah. So the way the way that pickleball has kind of historically been is there's been like really cheap paddles, right? You buy them from Amazon, you buy them from Target, Walmart, whatever. And then there's like pro level paddles and kind of similar to like, I don't know if you play golf or whatever, but kind of similar to golf and some

Rob Valincius: I've avoided it because I know I would end up spending a lot of 

Evan Kuterbach: much money and and and a lot of times what you'll see in pickleball similar to honestly, a lot of sports is like. People spend money thinking that that's going to like solve all their problems, right? I've played against people in golf that have a, you know, 2, 000 driver and they're still shanking it into the woods, right?

And it's the same thing in pickleball. So what we saw was in the pickleball market, there wasn't really like. A quality paddle that was better than an Amazon target paddle. That's going to be plasticky and break immediately. And it's

not going to be this like 100 plus, you know, pro level paddle, which to be frank, like, unless you're playing a lot of tournaments, you don't really need.

And even then you really don't need to be spending over like 120, 130 for a paddle.

And so we didn't see that there was many of those out there and the ones that were there, we didn't like the designs, we didn't like kind of their whole aesthetic. And so we were like, okay, let's build something better.

And then let's also build this community around people that are, you know, the reason we love pickleball is being outside. So, you know, it connected our, our, our love, like being, you know, from Colorado, me, and then my co founders up in Queens, but he loves going out to upstate New York and stuff.

And so being in the outdoors was like the big driver of even getting into pickleball.

So we were like, what if we can connect the two? And then we were like, well, no pickleball brand is really doing like a mission driven approach, which we also were like, this is really important to us. So it kind of started to happen naturally. And honestly, the name Canyon. Was and I like pulled this up because I was on a podcast recently and we were talking about this They're like, how'd you get the name? and I scrolled back through my texts and I think I was just like looking at a picture when I went to Um, Bryce Canyon National Park in utah. This is like years ago

and I just texted him and I was just like what about canyon because I was like You know, two syllables. Um, it's super easy to say, very easy to remember.

Um, it's unique enough. You pretty much have an idea. Like when you hear the word Canyon, like, you know, that it's like outdoors, it's like, you know, kind of lifestyle outdoors feel, um, if we were to talk about it and it just kind of stuck from there. So it all happened pretty organically, but again, I think it was like, it's a testament to just me and my co founders relationship of just being like, Literally spitballing every fucking thing that comes out of our, like anything it's like, it's like, what about this?

No, that's fucking terrible. Don't do that. What

about this? 

Rob Valincius: stupid as 

Evan Kuterbach: great. Yeah. And it's like, just like finding someone you can do that with, because, I mean, that was really like the catalyst to, to be able to actually put the wheels in motion and not just be like, let's have an idea. Let's actually like order some samples.

Let's find a manufacturer, like all that kind of stuff. So, yeah.

Rob Valincius: So what's all involved with and and so explain all the products that you guys offer

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. So we have, um, right now we have four designs. Um, we've got four pickleball paddles. We have pickleballs that we sell. Um, and then we also have like t shirts, stickers, that kind of stuff. Um, the t shirts and the stickers are kind of like an, like an added thing. We originally did them just for family and stuff like that.

But, um, we have them on our website. We still have them for sale and all that. But mainly we focus on pickleball paddles, uh, and the balls right now.

Rob Valincius: So how does that talk about the the e commerce side of it? You know, I know you had no fucking idea about e commerce, right? So talk about the jump into It This e commerce business that, for one, you've never done before. Um, I'm sure you've watched YouTube videos and did trainings and stuff, but you've never done it yourself.

And, what is some of the stuff that might go into a business like this that people might not think of? Like, 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I always joke that the only thing I knew about e commerce was like the fact that I've purchased fucking products. That was like the only thing I knew. Right. Um, my background, I, you know, my, my co founder and I were fortunate that like our background is in marketing. So we know how to market products.

We're copywriters. So we write messaging. So that's, that's definitely a leg up. But from like a. An e commerce brand, you know, what a lot of people, I think, don't realize what goes into it is. You know all of these little pieces that add up to your bottom line, right? Like you want to get your margins at a really good number and you start realizing that you know what like There's a lot of fucking products out there.

Not just pickleball paddles. There's a lot of products out there There's a lot of different things and so you're really competing for a lot of attention, right? So when you're thinking about like, how can you differentiate right? How can you create a product that's going to be different? you really need to like focus on that and You Since we're marketers, we kind of like really dove deep into like understanding our audience, like really understanding like what they're looking for. Um, you know, kind of struggles that they're dealing with and then really tailoring our messaging there. Now, once we started to at least having the brand set up, having like the idea, getting the designs, um, basically the way I say is like when you're starting really any business, but especially an e commerce business, you need to do three things.

You need to write down what you're good at. You need to write down what you want to learn and then see if you can outsource the rest because if you Are good at things. Great. You can check that off, right? We were good at marketing. We know how to write emails. We know how to like, you know, write the words that go on a website. Um, I wanted to learn more about social media. So I was like, I'm going to take that on. I'm going to research the shit out of it. I'm going to watch as many YouTube videos and podcasts about social media, getting the word out there. And he wanted to learn advertising. So he wanted to learn Facebook ads. He wanted to learn Tik TOK ads. And then everything else, right? Like we're not graphic designers. We're not web developers. I didn't want to learn that. I didn't want to learn how to be a graphic designer. So we went on Fiverr. We went on Upwork to find those things. So that's what I always

Rob Valincius: I love Fiverr, 

Evan Kuterbach: Oh, I love it. I love it. I've 

Rob Valincius: So that's where this logo came from.

Evan Kuterbach: our, our current, our current graph designer, we found on Upwork and it's like, you know, one of those things where, again, if you, if you don't want to learn it and you're not already good at it. And you're going to hate it and you're probably going to stop your idea because you're going to be like, damn, I cannot figure this shit out. And little did you know, you could have gone on Upwork and you could have hired someone who's could get this done in, you know, like three hours, right? Like, so I would say that's one of the biggest things that I think I see people struggle with that have tried to start a business and especially in e commerce.

Um, because at the end of the day, like as an e commerce owner, I mean, we're growing and we're, you know, getting good sales, but I'm still shipping these things out of my garage. I can handle the volume for now. But we're going to be at a place very soon where I can't handle that. So I'm having to find third party providers.

I'm on, you know, I'm having to deal with our, with our manufacturing facility, that's, you know, abroad. So all these little pieces that you're having to focus on that I can't worry about, like, you know, how to design something on the fucking website. Like I just can't, like I'm, I'm posting on Instagram, doing all the things.

So knowing what you're good at, know what you want to learn, and then seeing if, seeing if you can outsource the rest is, is, is the best advice I can give.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, and it's tough. I think, you know, and I'm sure you can attest to this, but it's got to be tough to outsource some stuff because it's your baby, right? Like this is like, it'd be like outsourcing your, your, your You know, daughter for some, for something, right? It's like something that you created that, you know, you have like, it's weird.

It's like, um, you know, I had someone helping me with, uh, my videos and, uh, posting my videos and, um, doing social media cuts for tech talk and stuff for a little while. And, uh, cool, cool dude. Great dude. But his vision and my vision didn't match. So, you know, he would do a video and I would, I would look at like the logistics in terms of like, who's watching it.

And, you know, it'd be like 15 people saw the video and then some videos would have 200 people, you know, but it wasn't like what I wanted out of the episode on social media. So, like, for me, it was like, you know, I didn't want to take the time to kind of explain what I was looking for because I think he's good at it It's just our stuff didn't align, right?

So, you know, it's it's got to be a lot of that where it's like, all right. Well, what am I willing to outsource? That maybe it's not exactly my vision, but it's close enough where it's not going to bother me at the end of the day

Evan Kuterbach: totally, totally. And that's, you know, I would say we kind of got in that trap early on too, right? We had a, um, we We had a freelancer we were working with and, um, I'm not going to say exactly the project just in case they end up having to listen, but, um, there was a project we were working on and their communication style was just terrible.

Like they were delayed on everything. They, you know, didn't communicate when they were, uh, going to be kind of short on a project or not be able to get everything done in time. And it was so frustrating. It would honestly, it was something that we probably put up with for too long. Like we should have said, you know, like, You like we already paid you the first half.

Uh, we're going to go ahead and cut ties now because we can't be delayed anymore. We can't wait any longer

and it's just not fitting. But we just went along on that ride and it kind of screwed us over. Right? Like we ended up having to wait longer to finish this project because we were waiting for that person.

Whereas. You know, in the grand scheme of things, I think we paid them like a hundred bucks for the task we were doing. And all the time and stress we dealt with, we probably could have just found another person or done it ourselves at that point. So,

um, I would say that, yeah, I would say, yeah, exactly. So that's definitely the hard part too, like you said, is like trying to figure out like where you can outsource, where it makes sense.

And ultimately you, like you are the, you know, the business owners, you do have to like make the decision and say, you know what, like this is not working. Um, so it's hard. Yeah.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, it's not easy. It's definitely not easy. Um, so, you know, I, I did almost, I looked into doing something for e commerce. I have so many fucking ideas to 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Tell me one. Tell me, one of your ideas. I'm curious. 

Rob Valincius: well after, after going to chicken and pickle, I went on GoDaddy. I was looking at domains cause I'm like, dude, this has, we have to have like an inside pickle ball court up here.

Like a hundred percent have to, 

Evan Kuterbach: do you guys have any in Philly right now? 

Rob Valincius: I don't think we do, dude. And if we do, no one knows about it. I've never seen anything for it. I mean, we have so many giant buildings here that just have nothing in them. Like, like there's so much wasted space in and around Philadelphia. And I'm like, dude, I was thinking of like P.

A. Pickle. You know, like I had, I had the ideas were flowing, bro. And I'm like, oh man. I was like, if only I had fucking half a million dollars, you know, 

Evan Kuterbach: Dude. The thing is, the thing is, is like, and because my wife and I've talked about whenever we move back to Colorado, starting up a facility, um, there's a few facilities in Orlando and what I'll tell you, the indoor facilities that do the best, if they're not going to be like a franchise model, like a chicken and pickle, the ones that I see do the best in pickleball. Are where you have like a warehouse space. You've got like two courts and you rent them out for like private parties, corporate events, those

types of gatherings, because then you can charge more and they get the private facility to themselves. And then there you can have, you can sell alcohol, you can sell snacks, you can sell gear, merch, whatever you want to do. Um, those ones I've seen, I mean, we've got some here in Orlando and they are, I mean, they're booked out months in advance and it's like 300 bucks an hour.

And they are, I mean, it's literally booked out months in advance. So. I, I know there's still so much business there. And especially right now, Pennsylvania is not on the list of like top pickleball cities. And that's a good thing because right now Pennsylvania is growing, right? All these states are still growing the popularity of pickleball. Like it

kind of, It's still growing in New York and New York is kind of like, you know, similar to COVID it was like kind of a test baby for COVID is the same thing.

Right. Once it,

once it gets big in New York, it starts to get big everywhere else. And so I see like Philly and Pittsburgh and all those cities up there starting to really blow up.

Rob Valincius: Well, I dude, and I look at it like this, it's, it would be great because if you have an in, like you could do it like chicken and pickle, right? Have an outdoor and 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, totally. 

Rob Valincius: Obviously now people really aren't going to play outdoors, but if you have a decent enough space and having those, those indoor area, I mean, I'd imagine it'd be pretty packed.

Now, I'm sure logistically speaking, there's things that probably are astronomical, right? I'm sure you have to have very, very good insurance. You

Evan Kuterbach: You're the insurance. guy. So I'm sure, You know, 

Rob Valincius: Yeah, yeah, you gotta have probably very good insurance uh, for any accidents and things like that. But, I mean, we signed a couple disclaim um, a couple things before we could even start playing.

Evan Kuterbach: Right, 

Rob Valincius: um, But yeah, as soon as I left there, dude, I'm like, oh man, if I, if only I knew like a semi rich guy that just had some money to blow, I'm like, this would, it would definitely make money. 

Evan Kuterbach: It definitely would. 100 percent would. Yeah, it

Rob Valincius: Um, but I have, I, that shit flows all the time, man. Um, and I thought a lot before I did this podcast. Um, you know, took, I had, I knew the name right away.

I knew the name instantly, because I've always been the guy that's just like, I'm the drinker, you know, of the friend group, but like, Um, I never, I almost never drink to get drunk, ever, like, I just like to have a drink or two and 

Evan Kuterbach: Same, same, same. 

Rob Valincius: um, I don't like to lose the faculties, 

Evan Kuterbach: Yep. Plus, I mean, probably similar to you. Like I want to wake up the next day and like still be able to do my day. So, you know,

I know kind of the limit that I don't need or that

I can do that, that I can still wake up the next day and be all right.

Rob Valincius: I have a line that I don't tend to cross. Now I'm sure like, you know, Thanksgiving, I'm sure I'll cross that line 

Evan Kuterbach: Yep. Hehe, 

Rob Valincius: birthday is coming up, I'm sure I'll cross that line because we like to go out to a nice dinner or whatever. Um, but I tend to try to not pass that, you know, like almost ever.

And now that we haven't been drinking as much, Now I get drunk faster. 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah 

Rob Valincius: Like it's, it's definitely way faster. Uh, you know, you have like two drinks and you're like, Oh, this is great. You 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah yeah, yeah. 

Rob Valincius: but, uh, that's the beauty of drinking is, you know, you can do it as long as you're not, uh, you, I put it this way.

My, my uncle, uh, and his wife were raging alcoholics. Uh, he's been clean now for like, I think three years, but, um, they would get up and put booze right in their coffee. Like that was the first thing they did. And I'm like, all right. I know that if, if I'm putting booze in my coffee the moment I wake up, I have a problem, 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah. Hehehe. 

Rob Valincius: a, wedding weekend or something, okay, you know. But if, if this is, if that's the, how you start your day, I couldn't imagine doing that.

Evan Kuterbach: Same. Yeah,

Rob Valincius: It would throw me the fuck off, man. I need to like, my, when you're drinking your thoughts get all fucking wiry 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, I can barely, yeah, I can barely combine coffee and orange juice in the morning. Like I got to have my coffee and then maybe have orange juice two hours later. Cause my brain is just, you know, got to have one before the other.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, yeah, and the caffeine has to be first. You gotta get the caffeine in, get the blood flowing, you know. Um, I gave up energy drinks, but for a while that was my thing. I can't do coffee, bro. I can't do it.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah.

Have you tried.

tea and stuff? Have you tried like tea? Like, like cold brew, like, or not like cold brew, but like iced tea and like, you know, black tea and stuff.

Rob Valincius: I have a caffeine addiction. Um, I've quelled it quite a lot recently. But when I was younger I drank two energy drinks a day. I did it for like 20 years almost. Then, uh, a couple years ago, I'm like, alright, I should get healthy. So then, I drink, I, I, I bought a Nespresso machine, tried to do that. I still make the wife, uh, coffee every morning.

Um, she likes it. I just, I can't do it. It's just not my thing. Like, when I think of energy in a drink, I think of cold. 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: It's just ingrained in me. I don't think of a warm coffee. Now, I might enjoy it now since it's cold outside It'll be a little different It's just coffee's just not my thing and I work in an office man I've tried it three different times of saying I'm gonna drink coffee for a month and see what happens.

I can't do it

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, it's fair. That's fair.

Rob Valincius: I think it's an acquired taste. It's like beer. Some people just don't drink beer because they don't like it and You know anyone that tries their first beers like what the fuck is this? Why is everyone, you know, you're a kid You're like why the fuck does my dad drink this and then You know, you get used to 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, and now, and now I'm drinking. Yeah, and now I'm drinking, like, non alcoholic beers just because I love the taste and I don't want the calories. So I'm like, you know what? I'll just drink the N. A.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Fuck it. You know? Um, so what are, um, what are some things that you learned throughout this process of leaving the eight to five, doing the e commerce, um, that you think you could kind of bestow on, on some people? Yeah.

Evan Kuterbach: Nobody knows what they're fucking. Nobody knows. Like I, and I, I post a lot, like for anyone listening, you can follow my LinkedIn and that's where I'm always posting stuff and, and I, and I, and I in no way, I'm like encouraging people to leave the right to five.

This is what works for me. This is my, my path. It's great. But what I've learned is that no one knows what they're doing, right? Not the top CEO, not the, the, the lowly intern, right? Like everyone is trying to figure things out and we're all trying to just, you know, Just figure it out. And so when I've chatted with people, I mean, especially like when like you hear from people that it looks like they're running like successful brands.

I've spoken to a lot of brand owners, not just in pickleball. And they say the same thing. They're like, Oh man, like I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm literally thinking until I make it like, Oh yeah, no. I mean, I, I just threw that up there. I had no idea what I was doing with that.

And the amount of times I hear that it starts to like, you start to get more comfortable and realize that like. At the day, like, you know, do I want this to succeed? Yes. Do I think it's going to succeed? Yes. But if it fails, like it fails, like it's been a blast and I'm doing what I love and it's fucking fun. Um, and I'm trying something new. So I would say that's like one of the biggest things I've learned is no one knows what they're doing. And then the second thing I would say is like. Just to roll with the punches. Like, and I think that's the same thing with like, even like when I was in my corporate role, you know, like shit, it's the fan things are going to happen.

It's the same thing. Like when I tell like new parents, I'm like, I don't have any advice for you. Cause I'm just rolling with the punches too. Right? Like, you know, things just happen, right? Like, you know, my daughter pooped on the floor the other day and it just happened. You gotta,

Rob Valincius: You're like, ah, Jesus 

Evan Kuterbach: You know, you gotta, you gotta roll with the roll with the punches.

You know, she saw our dog poop outside and she was like, I should be pooping outside. So that's what she did.

And, um, 

Rob Valincius: by the way. Absolutely hilarious. Oh, to be a kid again.

Evan Kuterbach: man, it's great. It's great. You know, I'm only pooping and pooping outside when I'm camping. So she's just pooping, pooping in downtown Orlando.

Um, but, uh, 

Rob Valincius: you're not in San Fran. There's a lot of people pooping 

Evan Kuterbach: That's true. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um, but

so, you know, I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things is like, you just got to roll with it because things are going to break, things are going to get screwed up and you know, it just is what it is.

You just got to adjust.

Rob Valincius: that's part of being an entrepreneur, too. You know, I think, um, that's good advice and, um, I, I think what makes, what differentiates, um, you know, Entrepreneurs just in general, right? Is well, how many of those hits can you take before you give up? 

Evan Kuterbach: A hundred percent. 

Rob Valincius: you know, um, like with these podcasts where I've been told many times, like 10 episodes, like 99 percent of podcasts fail before 10 episodes.

Um, so it's one of those things where, you know, yeah, in the beginning. People weren't listening, you know, and I'm talking to, you know, not many people, but after you continuously grow and then you meet people and you network, things just start to kind of blossom. But you have to, uh, what did someone tell me?

Someone, I want to say, was it someone I interviewed last week? We said, you know, it's like, you know, if you were to go out and, um, plant something out in your yard, And water it one day and then you, you know, you come out the next day and expect it to be bloomed already That's not how it works. That's not how life is, you know, um And I think um, especially with our generation.

We took a lot of hits dude. I mean, we're around for some crazy shit. So I think we're pretty, um, accustomed to be able to pivot where we need to. And I think that worries me for future generations because, I mean, you could, you could see it now it's, you know, a lot of these kids are taking a punch, but they don't know how to take the punch.

So the, the, there's no pivot. It's like, you know, it's the world it's this, it's that. And, um, hopefully we'll have more parents like you who, who can, who can teach their kids, say, look, It's okay. You know, it's okay to fall. It's okay to shit outside. You know, just don't do that. Don't do that out, you know, normally, but, um, you know, you learn a lesson and then you kind of build on it.

Um, and look, this isn't paying any bills. I'm not making any money off of this right now, but I'm going to continue to do it, continue to grow it. And if it turns out to be something great, if not, it's just another reason to drink on a third on a Thursday. 

Evan Kuterbach: totally. And, and like to your, to your point too, right? I think like the networking and all that, but like, it's also like, When you're doing this, like when you're doing something that you're enjoying or you're trying something out, like you quickly realize that there are so many more people that have ideas that you know are doing cool creative things on the side or whatever and I mean, the amount of messages that I've gotten since I left the corporate world, who, like, did not like or comment on any of my posts because they feel like their employer might see that they're liking this post where I'm talking about my life after a 9 to 5, and again, I'm not promoting that, uh, in that way, but, um, they'll message me and say, man, like, I, you know, I love what you're doing.

I've been, like, cheering you on from the sidelines. It's been awesome. Like, I'm excited to see your journey. And then I'm like, Oh, that, you know, thanks so much. Like, are you working on any, on anything on the side? And most people are like, they have these ideas, they're trying things out. And I think that's, what's been awesome is like, there's just, there's, there's, I really think there's more of us than there are of. Like the people that are just in a corporate job. There's more people doing more side projects or have ideas for side projects and things. It's just about knowing how to get it off the ground. Right. I mean like

now you talk about all your ideas, but like, I mean, you're, you're sitting here doing one of your ideas, right?

Like this was an idea. So like that's cool. Right. And that's awesome. So, um, yeah, I mean, I just love connecting with people who are trying new, like new things.

Rob Valincius: yeah. I mean, look, dude, it's, um, it's admirable. Like, I admire what you did because, uh, if I could do it, I would . Um, and who knows, maybe someday I will, but, um, it's, you know, right now it's, it's paying the bills. Um, you know, give us some dos and don'ts that you learned, um, in terms of creating a brand from scratch.

You know, there's, there's a lot to that. I know, you know, when I was creating this, you know, I, I had to do a ton of fucking running around to figure out what the hell it was doing. Um, talk a little bit about that,

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, you want do's or don'ts first?

Rob Valincius: whatever you're comfortable 

Evan Kuterbach: Alright, let's go, let's go don'ts.

Um, cause they're top 

Rob Valincius: was going to say, don't, so you always go with the bad stuff first. 

Evan Kuterbach: the don'ts, you know, are already making me angry. You're already triggering something. You know, some, some past PTSD. Um, I would say one of the biggest don'ts is, um, Do not stress so much about little things within your brand, right?

Like at the end of the day, like I started a copywriting agency and my website was shit. It was absolute shit, but it got the point across and people believed me and I had great testimonials, all this kind of stuff. Same thing with Canyon. The amount of times that me and my co founder sat on our website for like three hours and tried to tweak this picture, change the shade, change this, that, and I was like, do you know how many times, like, if, if, if Rob has seen this site, you know, he's not going to go on and be like, you know what, they should have gone one little shade of saturation down.

Right? Like

they wouldn't have done that. And, but we were, we were so invested because it was, and it is our baby. So. I would say like, don't, don't stress so much about that stuff. Like you need to, especially when you're starting your own brand, like you need to look legit enough and you need to be able to be credible and that kind of side, but do not stress so much where it's like taking you away from like moneymaking activities, right?

Things where you can actually generate revenue.

Um, another, another don't, I would say is, um, don't deal with, uh, incompetency because at the end of the day, like, You know, and this kind of goes back to the freelancer side when you're hiring freelancers, you're working with other people Um, you know, I I cannot wake up and not think about making money.

Unfortunately, right? I don't have a steady paycheck So this is my job. I need to be making money for my family. I've got a kid So, you know, there's no like delay and things right? There's no like, oh, you know what like, you know, they're you know They didn't respond for this amount of time when they said they were going to like, you know You want to be nice.

You want to be, you know, thoughtful, but at the day, like you do need to look out for yourself because no one else is looking out for you, right? It's just you. And I've been fortunate to have a great co founder and him and I just are able to like really balance each other out well, but. If you don't have that, if you're in it by yourself, like no one else is looking out for you, no one else is going to be like, you know what?

Like Evan, you've, you've really got to like, you know, step it up. You, you've got to get that timeline. You know, you've got to get that, that project finished. Like it's gotta be on you. So,

um, I would say those are like the two biggest don'ts that we dealt with.

Um, 

Rob Valincius: are your, your own worst enemy

Evan Kuterbach: a hundred percent, 100%.

Rob Valincius: Like, and if you're starting, and I, I said this before too. I'll, I'll throw in a don't for me, if you're starting a fucking podcast, don't constantly look at your downloads. Don't fucking do it because if you put on an episode and no one downloads it you're gonna get discouraged You're gonna say fuck it and you're not gonna do it.

There's gonna be times where that happens So if you're starting a podcast and it's brand new just give it time Don't constantly check. I almost never look at my numbers anymore I just don't, I don't 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah, yeah. 

Rob Valincius: um, in fact I was, I was talking to wifey, I looked at my numbers, I had 80 downloads randomly on like this Thursday, I didn't even post an episode, it was just 80, 80 downloads, like, like, you know, a bunch of people found it and listen, and that's what's going to happen, so sorry, but I had to add that in there, because 

Evan Kuterbach: that's great. 

Rob Valincius: of the things I did in the beginning, I constantly, Just obsessed over the numbers.

And it's not always about this.

Evan Kuterbach: Totally. And honestly, I mean, it was the same thing for us. I mean, we would, for those of your listeners who don't have e commerce or maybe have done e commerce, um, if you're on Shopify, right, ours on Shopify, you can literally see, I can see where every visitor on our site is located. I can, it'll say like, you know, 20 visitors on our site.

I can go on the map. I can scroll in. I can see like, you know, we got Rob here outside of Philly looking at our website right now. Yeah. We would literally like when we first started, we're like, where's this person at? Oh man, they're here. Okay. We should be like doing this. We should be targeting them here.

We should, you know, we started going on this whole path and

Rob Valincius: We should geofence everywhere 

Evan Kuterbach: everywhere. You know what? Yeah, exactly. Maybe, maybe he's in a, he's in a, he's in a spot. That's going to have, you know, 20 new pickleball players. We need to. So it was like this whole idea again, of looking at our numbers so obsessively.

And again, I think when you're a business owner, like yourself, right. It's like, You know, you do it because it's your baby and you know, sometimes you have to learn the hard way to kind of just let those go a little bit.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, 100%.

Evan Kuterbach: Uh, and then for the dues, I would say, um, do, if you can find someone that is either part of your business or is like an advisor, right?

Someone who you can just like get, give you candid feedback. If you have something that is. You know, a dumb idea, right? Like I go to my wife all the time and I'm like, Hey, what do you think about this? And she will be very honest and say, I hate that. That was terrible. Like, do not do that. And I'm like, you're right.

That was really bad. Um, and so find someone, whether it's a friend, whether it's, you know, turns into a business partner, whether it's just an advisor, like, I don't know, paying 50 bucks a month and say, Hey, can I just like, get your opinion on this when I reach out, like something to give you like an unbiased perspective. Um, that's not just going to like sugarcoat things that I would say that's like a massive do because. You are on your own island, right? You're, you're,

you're waking up every day, you're doing the thing. And unless you have other friends that are, you know, e commerce owners or business owners or whatever, or podcasters, right, you feel very alone.

Probably a lot of times you feel like you're the only one in the world doing this, but you're not a lot of people have done this and there's a lot of ways for you to get that feedback. So that's definitely a major do. Um, a second thing I would say is. Um, really just like enjoy the process, like enjoy the process of creating something, right?

You're, you're creating something that didn't exist before. Um, you know, whether it's a physical product, whether it's a service, whether it's a podcast, whatever it is, music, like you're creating something and that's, that's fucking cool, like that's super cool. And it's very, very hard to like enjoy those moments when you are, you know, struggling, you're trying to pay the bills, whatever it is, but like try to take those moments of like, This is fucking cool.

Like when I like look at my paddles, it's, you know, it's different for fiscal product, but like, I see this, I'm like, I created this, like I made this thing happen and that, and it's in people's hands across the country. Like, that's so fucking cool. Like you're in

people's ear, like you're in people's ears across the country, like that's fucking cool.

So try to enjoy those moments because it's hard as shit and it's, you know, you're going to feel beat down probably more times than not, but the great moments are the best.

Rob Valincius: Do you have your own, like, custom paddle?

Evan Kuterbach: So we are creating, uh, actually it's funny you bring that up. So we are, and mainly because we've had a lot of feedback from people who weren't like. They want a longer handle. Our, our handles a little shorter for like my hands. Like I, I had a paddle that was a little longer. So my co founder and I are going to make some custom paddles for ourselves.

Um, just to kind of like mess around and we've got a great manufacturer that we can do that. So yeah, we're going to, we're going to create more of a custom one. And I want to make a custom one for kids too. That's like miniature for like babies. Cause like my toddler, she's got, she's got a little one from some other brand and I want to make some small little Canyon ones that we can sell and maybe stocking stuffers for someone.

So. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Valincius: into my last question for you, before we get out of here. What's the future look like, man? Um, talk to me about where you see, um, Canyon Pickleball, just Pickleball in general if you want. Um, in the next five years, three to five years.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. So honestly, like we kind of see Canyon evolving into more than just Pickleball. Like I see Canyon and my co founder and I see Canyon as like evolving into more of like an outdoors lifestyle brand. Um, that's really about giving back, getting people outside, getting people moving. Um, there's a brand out there called Prana, um, who I've always liked.

They actually started as like a hiking, uh, or I mean, um, um, uh, rock climbing brand and they kind of pivoted and then, and now rock climbing is kind of like a piece of their brand. And so I see pickleball being like a piece of Canyon. And then maybe we go into, you know, I don't know, other sports or other outdoors activities and, you know, Canyon's kind of the umbrella.

Um, so I, I see Canyon evolving into more than just pickleball. Um, what I see pickleball going, I mean, there's talk that it's going to be in the 2032 Olympics. It's not going to be in the 2028, which really sucks. Um, but it's going to be hopefully in 2032 Olympics. Um, it's gaining a lot of popularity abroad right now.

So. I think we're only at the, at the very bottom of that hill and we're climbing up, climbing up. So, um, I'm just excited to see what the future is going to hold. We've got, you know, universities now have club pickleball teams. We've got high schools that are creating their teams now. So I honestly think the sky's the limit for pickleball.

It just is going to determine, you know, probably honestly, the next year or two is really going to determine pickleball's future. So yeah, we'll have to see. Yeah,

Rob Valincius: once again, I didn't know what it was two or three years ago. And now like I hear about it all the time. Right. And I think you guys are in a good spot because you're you're established now. And you're growing. And then you could kind of like ride the coattails of that. 

Evan Kuterbach: totally. 

Rob Valincius: You know trajectory and then I think once you do start to climb, right?

That'll give you opportunity to do the branch out that you want to do, right? Um, so I I think you're in a good spot, man You guys got a like I said, I I like your website. I didn't uh, look at any of the shading specifically um You got clean artwork. Um I I I think the uh, I I do think you know, if you find even more of a niche, you know You could probably even You Taking another step above the custom stuff's cool but I think that's when you start to get into like that price increase and I I guess that goes against your kind of your target market right because you said you were trying to To be in the middle where you're not like the crazy fiber fiber shit that you know My buddy's bought and you're not the walmart 20 amazon paddles.

You're like in that middle ground, right?

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, honestly, like, like w we do want to have more of a pro style paddle, mainly because we've had customers ask about it. We've had people say like, Hey, are you going to come out with like, A more pro level paddle. So right now our paddles are 54 bucks a piece. We do two for 85 Um, but we're looking at doing a

pro level battle. Yeah, it's a great deal Um, and and then we're looking at doing a pro level paddle That'll be like one for like 80 bucks, which is going to be like a really really great paddle It's going to have all the bells and whistles everything that you're going to want in a pro level paddle But for 80 bucks like can't beat that and again Unless you're like this pro level player who's making thousands of dollars a month You really don't need to be spending 200 250.

There's 350 paddles right now. It's absurd

Rob Valincius: Shout out to my boys, uh, you know, JC and Andy out of Miami. If you end up listening to this, you guys are cucks for spending 200 on your stupid five, five, whatever the fucking paddles were that you whooped my ass with, 

Evan Kuterbach: Space made titanium 

Rob Valincius: Yeah, motherfuckers are telling me all this shit and I'm like, you know what? I don't, let's just play, you know, uh, they remind me of the guys that like would come to you, you go bowling and they bring their own fucking bowling 

Evan Kuterbach: yeah, and and they've got the whole thing on their hand and it's like, you know, oh man, I actually never play I never play

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know anything at all. Um, and you know what? I'll leave this too. And you can, I'm sure agree with me in terms of like, when you're creating a brand. The one thing I wanted to mention is do be consistent. Right? Um, I think that's important. Um, I'm, I'm getting better at it, but my consistency when I, especially when I first started, I was all over the fucking place.

I'm releasing episodes, I was doing four hour long episodes, I was releasing on Tuesday and then Wednesday, or then the, like, You have to come up with a plan and just be consistent. Is it always gonna, are you always gonna be able to do exactly what you want? No. But if you're consistent, that grows. People like consistency.

You know, you releasing an episode or, or you having a launch of your products, you know, every quarter or whatever, right? It's like, you have to just stay consistent. We're humans. Humans. with 

Evan Kuterbach: Yep. We like patterns, right? Yeah. 

Rob Valincius: not like, you know, working at eight to five though. We don't want to do that. know, uh, we, we need to break out of the mold there.

Um, but look, Evan, it was a pleasure having you on brother. 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, no, Rob, this has been great, man.

Rob Valincius: hopefully I'll see your shit blow up. Um, you got it. You got to let me know where I can get a t shirt. So tell everybody where they could find your stuff. Um, and if you got anything coming up, um, you know, Shortly.

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah. Yeah. So you can find us at canyonpickleball. com super easy. Um, at Canyon Pickleball for Instagram, TikTok, we're always posting there. Um, you know, yeah, I mean, again, you know, we were, we're a small business and, you know, we're excited to see the growth. So if you haven't tried Pickleball yet, You know, give it a try.

Um, you know, you can, you can check us out. We'd love to have you. Um, we, we just came out with, this was our newest design. We literally just came out with this green one. Um, I guess it was about two weeks ago, maybe a week and a half ago. And in the new year, like I said, we've got a lot of cool stuff coming out, pro level paddle, probably some stuff for the kids. Um, and then we're also going to be getting into some more outdoorsy stuff. So just, yeah, follow along our journey. We're excited for the new year and what's to come. So

Rob Valincius: Cool. Awesome. I just followed you on LinkedIn too. I saw your stuff so I, you know, I'll give you some shout outs and uh, 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Same here. 

Rob Valincius: this. So um, episode, obviously this is Drink Clock Podcast. You can find this anywhere you listen to podcasts. And then social media, it's all Drink Clock Pod for the most part.

Everywhere. Um, so yeah, we'll have this all up and uh, hopefully I should have this out uh, tomorrow.

Evan Kuterbach: Awesome.

Rob Valincius: Awesome, brother. Well, look, you have a great night. Um, hopefully your kid didn't poop on the floor while you were doing this . I'm that I I'm gonna be laughing about that for a week. Dude, that was 

Evan Kuterbach: was, oh man, it was so funny. It was so funny. She's like, Bubba, Bubba poops outside. Ace said poop outside. I'm like, oh no, we don't. We don't.

Rob Valincius: At least it was your house and not like at a family gathering 'cause it would've been way 

Evan Kuterbach: Yeah, we're at like Olive Garden and it's 

Rob Valincius: Yeah, yeah, it's like I'm sorry dad, you know But look man, it was it was a pleasure having you on and let's do this again when you guys are You know in the fortune 500

Evan Kuterbach: Definitely, man. We would love it. Thanks so much, Rob.

Rob Valincius: Die brother. Have a great night

Evan Kuterbach: See you, man. 

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