Andrew Matthews

Andrew Matthews is an international speaker and Australian author, with his books selling over 8 millions copies in 48 different languages. We discuss what is happiness, tips on how to shift yourself to a positive perspective, and why does gratitude matter. You can find his content on his website: andrewmatthews.com.

Transcript

Intro Song

Rob Valincius: So, happy Thursday, although this is, I normally post on Friday, so I, I always, I should stop saying the day. I don't know why I say it. I know I'm going to edit this and be like, stop saying the day, Rob. Stop saying it. Uh, but this is the Drink O'Clock Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Valencius. I have the pleasure of having with me, uh, a fantastically, uh, quick witted Andrew Matthews.

Now, Andrew is an Australian author. And an international speaker. Uh, welcome to the show, buddy. How you doing?

Andrew Matthews: Happy to be with you, Rob. Thank you.

Rob Valincius: He's coming from across the ocean, man. So it's, it's 630 here. So what's it, is it uh, 930 there or

Andrew Matthews: It's 9. 30 in North Queensland in Australia. I'm on the East Coast and we've got usually three or four time zones in Australia, sometimes five, because we're a big country too.

Rob Valincius: You guys are giant man, but you know what with with how giant the country is comes I've heard some some crazy stories about some of the the spiders you guys have out there

Andrew Matthews: Yeah, we're famous for our spiders and snakes and crocodiles and it doesn't tend to impact my everyday life. But it certainly gets the attention of, you know, people come here from like the UK where there's There's nothing that's more vicious than a rabbit or something and, uh, and, you know, we've got these jellyfish out in the, in the sea just down the road and, and, uh, yeah, so it keeps it interesting and, and, um, but, you know, for the most part, it doesn't impact our everyday life.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, you don't just you know you when you picture Australia I just picture you walk it out in your your yard you get a kangaroo You know and then you go to take a shower. There's a giant spider Social media has, has kind of ruined it. Cause that's kind of all you see is like those, those crazy things that pop up.

But I'm sure it's, it's the same thing with the States here, right? It's like people picture us just walking around eating French fries out of a giant bucket. Cause we're all fat here. And you know, it's like, there's certain things I'm sure it's, I'm sure a lot of us do fit some of the stereotypes. So, uh, it's always hilarious when, uh, When I interview someone internationally and we, we kind of, you know, go, um, back and forth about some of the, the funny stereotypes that, that exist.

Andrew Matthews: right. But, where I live, I will often have kangaroos on my lawn in the morning and when I'm driving home at night, and I play tennis a couple of hundred metres away, and we have wallabies, like little kangaroos, and they just sit and watch. The rallies and they're never very impressed. They never applaud but it's just it's just beautiful.

You can have a bunch of four or five little kangaroos sitting around watching you play tennis. Now, I've never, I've lived in a few places in Australia and this is the only part of Australia where I've ever been surrounded by wallabies and kangaroos almost on a daily basis. It's just beautiful. They're so cute.

Rob Valincius: That is hilarious. That's pretty cool. I could only imagine in their heads, like what they're thinking, like, what the hell are these people doing? You know? Um, now, now, Andrew, you, you got some accolades, right? So, um, you're, you're most, uh, recent. The book is bouncing back, but you've got Being Happy, Follow Your Heart, um, you've sold over 8 million copies, um, in 48 different languages.

Um, you also present to companies and schools and even prisons. And you've done over a thousand different corporations. You've been all over the world. So, um, you always gotta start this by saying thank you. You know, for taking the time out of your, your busy schedule to hang out with a, with a podcast or across the way.

Um, but I, I, I like to, um, I like to start these. things, especially with, with authors, because it gives, uh, it gives my listeners a little bit of, um, kind of a feedback on, on who you are. So tell me a little bit about like, you know, growing up, um, you know, what, what made you, um, you know, cause I was really into drawing and stuff like that when I was younger.

What, you know, what got you into drawing and eventually, you know, writing and, and, you know, presenting and things like that, like what brought you to where you are now?

Andrew Matthews: Sure, thanks Rob. So for our listeners that haven't seen my books, my books are filled with cartoons. And, uh, that unfolded partly because I grew up drawing and painting, and I briefly attended law school when I thought I should do something that was a bit more corporate for a living. But I loved drawing and painting too much, so I drifted back into drawing and painting and I studied classical drawing and, and was working as an artist into my mid twenties.

When I suddenly realized that I wasn't as happy as I thought I was going to be, um, and I was 25, so I thought my life might be about a third over and I'm not doing very well, and what I, I made this shocking discovery. I discovered that the happiest people I knew had bigger problems than me, and I couldn't believe it.

I, I had. I had neighbors who had come back from cancer, or I had neighbors and friends who were dealing with cancer, and they seemed to have a better attitude than I did. I had, uh, I had friends who had lost loved ones way too soon, and they seemed to find more joy and more meaning in life than I had, and I, I realized that I had no excuse.

So I began to wonder, how is it that happy people think? And how can I think more like them? How can I be more like them? I read a lot of books, and some of them were, uh, pretty boring, um, but, uh, often had good messages. But having read about 200 books about the mind and the subconscious, and, and how we can live a better life, I thought, maybe I can put together some of these ideas that I wished I knew about.

Maybe I can create the book that I wished I'd had that would have given me hope. And more particularly, maybe I can write a book for people who hate reading and for people who hate self help books,

Rob Valincius: Which, I kind of fall a little bit in there. I don't hate them. It's just really difficult for me to get through one. I've tried. I've tried some of the, the big name books that everyone says, Ah, if you, if you do this, it's gonna change your life. And I'm, I've tried, man. I've tried. It just, I like, I like fiction.

So it's, it's hard for me, and I listen to a lot of audio books. I have an hour drive to and from work, so it, it's hard for me sometimes to tap into reality , because a lot of times when I'm reading a book or, or, you know, I'm listening, but I'm, I'm reading, right? I, I wanna, I wanna escape the world and go into this, this new world that, that I'm being fed, you know?

And, and, um, it's, it's a different, I guess I, I search for a different thing when I'm, when I'm looking to read.

Andrew Matthews: I understand. And you're not alone, Rob. Many people aren't comfortable with any kinds of books. And, uh, what we know is that people are much more comfortable with magazines than with reading books. So there's that whole chunk of the population who will happily flick through a magazine but won't read a book at all.

So, what I wanted to do was create a book that was as friendly as a magazine. So, lots of cartoons with headings so that you could bite into it. wherever you chose and you didn't have to begin from the front and slog your way through. And I, I suppose the other thing that I noticed was that I like books where people said, these are the mistakes that I made.

And these are the intelligent things that other people did. Excuse me. So I set out to, to write the book that I wished I'd had. And, um, after a whole lot of rejections, My first book, Being Happy, was accepted, and, uh, after a bit of a slow start, it began to get traction around the world, and, and some of that was helped by, at that time, the world's number one golfer, uh, Nick Faldo read Being Happy, and after he won the British Open, he said, that book really helped me win the title.

So, suddenly I had a lot of, a lot of golfers reading my books. And, um, but it was more everyday people who, who just said, uh, this is, this is the kind of book where I'm not being told how to live. I'm, I'm just getting some suggestions of things that may be useful.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I mean, um, I got to tell you when I, when I listened to a lot of those self help books, it's like, well, you know, I did this, so you should do this and it worked for me. It'll work for you. And, uh, if it's one thing I've learned. In, you know, I'm 38, you know, I'm still young, but if it's one thing I've learned in my, my old age is, uh, you can't fit a one person in, in the same box as somebody else.

Yeah, you know, they might have similar traits or whatever, but. Every person is extremely unique, um, and they have unique likes and dislikes. And, um, you know, I know, uh, I was in sales for a long time and it's the same thing with sales, right? It's like, um, you know, one sales tactic might be really good for one sales guy.

And then, you know, he teaches it to the new guy, but he does not do well with that sales tactic. He's actually much better doing it a totally different way. Um, and I, I really do feel that a lot of the self help books are, they're out there to help people. Right. But some of them, I don't think do it in the right way, especially not the current ones, especially like ones from like, you know, 10, even five years to a certain degree, you know, um, so.

What was your writing process like, um, you know, cause obviously your books are a little more unique, right? Because you don't just have, um, you're not just writing a novel. You're, you're also, you know, inserting drawings in, um, you know, in your most recent book, you had a lot of, uh, also feedback from other people and their stories, which I think is unique too.

So talk a little bit about that.

Andrew Matthews: Well, I was confident that I could illustrate the book. I just wasn't sure if I could write it. And, um, so, uh. The, the, the way that I write, I've now written 12 books, I basically make a list of all the things that I may think may be helpful or relevant. And then I make little notes about each of those points on the major list and then, then I just go through and try to cover each of those points.

Um, I try to, I try to, uh, tell stories. Um, I try to use humor and, uh, insert a cartoon. Or almost every other page like, uh, uh, and the, the, we'll just let people know that this is not too serious. Like, uh, my book, follow your heart. The first cartoon in the book is there's, there's a, a guy, he looks like a businessman and he's sitting down with a, with a, a cross legged guru, obviously in an ashram or some somewhere like that.

And he's saying to the guru master, uh, Is there more to life than just owning a Mercedes Benz? And the guru says, you bet, get a Ferrari. And, um, so, you know, does it mean anything that deep? Well, it certainly means that, you know, there are some pretty cool gurus out there that understand that life is about having joy and maybe we need, we need to find people that, that can, can share the joy perspective and also that this book is not gonna be too serious. Or there's a cartoon at the beginning of Bouncing Back, which is not as fun, but I think a lot of people will relate to it. There's a guy climbing a mountain, and he's sweating, and he looks like he doesn't want to be there. And he's, even his dog is sweating, his dog looks like he doesn't want to be there.

But they're climbing this damn mountain, and the caption says, you thought was breaking you is probably making you and we've all had those experiences that we didn't want, where when we've come through them, maybe it was a job that we hated or relationship that went bad, but we came out of it better equipped and better people, more skills, but it was something that we really didn't want.

And so somebody might open my book, get to the first page and see that cartoon. And they say, yeah, there's, there's some messages here that I can understand and I don't have to slog my way through this book.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I went through a bunch of your book. Um, I think one of the stories I liked was about the king. And he was pissed off about how lazy the people had gotten. So he strategically put the giant rock, uh, to cut off the main road.

Andrew Matthews: the only road into the town. Yes.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, yeah. And, uh, I thought that was a pretty unique story because at the end of the day it took, you know, had the, the people instead of just staring at the rock, you know, and blame the king for it or blame the conditions, um, you know, had they just worked together to move the rock, they would have noticed that there's, there was a bag of gold underneath it, you know,

Andrew Matthews: the one guy who the one guy that did have the initiative to find a big lump of timber from the forest and and use that lever to get the boulder out of the way so everyone could find their way into town again. He was the guy who found the bag of gold and the message that said what you think is the obstacle is actually your path and and so. You know, the obstacle is in effect the blessing. So yes, I like that story. Um,

Rob Valincius: Well, it's, it's relatable, um, to a certain degree because I do think that, you know, we all have been through some shit, you know? Um, and, and I always, I've, I've mentioned this in the over a hundred episodes of this podcast. I've mentioned it many times For me as a person, I think that adversity and the things that we go through.

Is really what creates the person, like, who you are as a person is who you are when you come out of that. Um, and, and because I think those things shape us, um, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. They don't always. Make the best version of you, but I do think that they create who you are and, and they're stepping stones to where you hope to be in.

And I thought I had it solved when I was 25 and I'm sure, you know, until you had your revelation, you thought you had it too. And then, you know, um, when I was 30, I thought it when I was 35, now I'm 38. I don't think I have it now, you know, uh, and I, Do you ever really know? Probably at a certain point you do, but I think we're all always constantly, uh, evolving ourselves personally.

And, and,

Andrew Matthews: can always

Rob Valincius: you have your core self.

Andrew Matthews: Yeah, we, we can always be blindsided, uh, by something, you know, when we thought that we were doing that. Okay. I, uh, I was chatting with my, my dear buddy, um, Who's just come through prostate cancer. I was chatting with him during the week and he said, yeah, you know, it's so much easier from, from the, from the sidelines to look at the game and say, this is what they should be doing because he's a, he's a sporting guy.

He's so much easier from the grandstand to make up your mind and say, this is how people should be playing. But when you're in it, You suddenly have a whole lot of thoughts that you never had before. And, and that is true. And, and, uh, no one is born extraordinary. We become extraordinary by facing challenges that we didn't choose. And, um, as you say, yeah. We never want to go through what we need to go through to turn us into the people that we want to be. Yes.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, um, that's why I think, and I have a lot of younger listeners too, that listen to this. Um. You know, under 30 and I always tell people that I think it's important, um, to face adversity because these days I think a lot of, a lot of parents are trying to make sure their kids don't face adversity or hard times.

They want their, their lives to be easy and that's all fine and dandy until you, you get to the real world. You get to the real world and you get punched. What's, what's the old saying? Um, it, the. The fight is the fight isn't real until you're punched in the nose. Or I think that was Tyson. I don't know. I think it was Tyson that said it maybe, uh, or Muhammad Ali.

Like, you know, it's not real until you're punched in the face and that's kind of how life is, you know, like you can live in a bubble, but the moment you're out and about life, isn't forgiving. I mean, I, I talked to my dad every day after work because, um, you know, his, his wife passed away from brain cancer.

Last January. So she, she passed away on the 6th. So we just hit, um, you know, the one, one year anniversary of her passing and my dad's still a wreck. You know, that was, that was his life. They've been together for, you know, uh, 25 years. So, um, you know, I, I try to, to tell people like, Hey, this is, this is what you should try to do.

This is how you should do this. But at the end of the day. My dad, I love him to death, but he's not going to get better unless he wants to get better. Um, I could give him as much input, but most of the time I'm just listening. I'm a good listener, so I just let him, let him go and, and talk it out. And I think at the end of the day, hopefully he feels a bit better after the fact, you know?

Um, but I

Andrew Matthews: I

Rob Valincius: that it, it's important.

Andrew Matthews: yeah, I think what you, what you're saying, um, Rob is that there's a healing process that we need and for some, a grieving process that, that is longer for some than others. And, and, uh, it takes a while until we can make that decision. Now I can begin to. Move on, but no one can make it for us, but, but, but happiness, happiness still, no matter what we go through, it is in many ways, it's, it's a decision and we need to respect other people's decision as to whether they're ready for it or not.

I sometimes tell the story of, uh, uh, we've all seen a toddler playing on the furniture at home and he falls on his head. And we say, what is the first thing he does? He looks around and he looks around to see who's watching. And based on the audience, he decides whether he's going to laugh or cry. There's that, that decision time.

And, and we think that's really cute. But in many ways, we are the same. Whatever happens to someone, someone drives into our car on the freeway, or we don't get the promotion that we thought was due. Thank you. Um, we're deciding, is this going to ruin my day? Is this going to ruin my month? It's, it's very much a decision we make.

Rob Valincius: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more. Um, now you're, let's get into your latest book a little bit, um, before we kind of get into some of the philosophies. Um, it's called bouncing back, right? Um, you know, this is, this is your 12th book. So, um, talk a little bit about why, why you decide to write it and maybe you can tell us a little bit about, you know, how would someone bounce back?

What does that look

Andrew Matthews: Still are. Um, we're all bouncing back from something. We're bouncing back from eating too much or spending too much or bouncing back from a relationship that started out well. Or we're bouncing back from a job that we thought we were going to have for 20 years and, and, um, and they let us go. Who knows what we're bouncing or we're bouncing back from losing someone we care about.

Um, so I thought, firstly, it's relevant to, to everyone and I wanted to take a look at what it is that resilient people do and do they have things in common? And I find that resilient people do have things in common. And, and I might say, Rob, that, um, you know, I, I, I understand and empathize with, with your thoughts that.

A lot of self help books are really boring. Um, and a lot of them tell us things from a point of view of if you do what I did, you can be rich and happy like me. And I hate that, but I do believe that sometimes it helps to be reminded about something that we even already know. And if we can be reminded about that in a way that, um, entertains us, Or with an image that sticks in our mind, then that's helpful.

So, some of the things I, three of the things, for example, I talk about in Bouncing Back. Number one is, the foundation of, of our happiness and of bouncing back is acceptance. And accepting things that we don't like. Let's say your girlfriend dumps you. And one alternative would be to say, I'll never forgive her for that.

And I can't accept it because I've been just the ideal. Partner and now she does this or, uh, let's say that, um, um, someone reverses into our, uh, brand new Cadillac in the supermarket and we say, this is going to ruin my month. Some people say, uh, well, if you don't accept stuff that you don't like, then you're not going to be stuck with it.

But in fact, the reverse is true. The way we move on is by accepting things that we hate. We say, I wouldn't have chosen this. But I've got it and now I move on and, um, and that is what all resilient people have in common is basically embracing reality. It's also understanding that that most disasters are not total disasters.

Like you, you meet your life partner who someone you think this is going to be my life partner and they dump you and this is a tragedy. How could this happen? We could have been so happy and anyway, uh, life goes on and you meet them 10 years later and you think, wow, I dodged a bullet. Um, or in the, in this, in the not so serious, uh, context.

You're at the airport, you're waiting for your flight and suddenly it's cancelled and there's not another flight for six hours. And you might say, well, this is a disaster, but then you say, okay, something good can come of this and you find a book or a comic or you get talking to somebody and it changes, changes everything.

You meet a brand new friend, you From something that you thought was a disaster. So it's helpful in accepting things that we didn't want to realize that that most disasters are not total disasters. We also need to have some kind of perspective. Like, you break your leg, you say, you know, and, you know, when you get over being upset about, you know, how could this have happened, we've got to ask ourselves the questions like, well, has anyone else ever survived a broken leg?

You know, maybe this is not so serious. I often think of, uh, there's a fellow called Nick Voyachich that I've, uh, spoken with in various events around the world, born with no arms and no legs.

Rob Valincius: Wow.

Andrew Matthews: extraordinary, just extraordinary man, has written about six best selling books. He is one of the world's highest paid speakers. Uh, he spent his teen years wondering, what, what job could I ever do and who would ever want me? He is, he is like a success story like no other. Married to a, a wonderful, beautiful woman. With four children and just crushing it. No arms, no legs. He's just got just one kind of little toe that grows out the end of the stump on, you know, where his leg would be.

So I think of him a lot. So perspective, I think helps.

Rob Valincius: That's a success story for sure. Wow.

Andrew Matthews: Yeah. Amazing guys. So, uh, we're talking about what are resilient people do. Number one is acceptance. Number two is resilient people say, okay, I'm, I didn't want to be in this situation, but I will deal with this one day at a time. You just bite off little chunks.

It's like, for example, if you were to gather together everything that you need to eat in the next five years and everything that you need to wear in the next five years, you put it all in a big sack and carry it around on your back. We say, how would you do? And, you know, not very well. It's a, it's a dumb strategy and you would probably collapse.

Well, similarly, if you were to make a list of everything you need to do in the next five years and everything that could go wrong in the next five years and carry that all around in your head. We say, how would that work? And it's not very well. You also might have some kind of mental collapse. We're not designed to get all stressed out about how we're going to manage the next five years or the next two years, but we can manage 24 hours very well. Biting things off in chunks helps. The third thing that I would mention that resilient people do, is they have a picture of the life that they want. Our life gets better as we imagine it getting better. First, we need the picture. To have more money in the bank, you need the picture, the idea in your mind to, uh, comfortably.

Speak to a large group of people. Public speaking begins as an idea, a picture in your mind. To, to have a happy relationship, it first becomes a picture. And to be happier. begins as an idea. So we need to sow those seeds of the happier life that we're moving toward. And what might seem out of the question and impossible initially, gradually becomes something that is possible.

And after a little while, it becomes even probable and we see our life getting better, but not without challenges.

Rob Valincius: I couldn't agree more. Um, you know, after, after kind of analyzing, you know, chunks of your book, um, you know, it emphasizes a lot about the impact of happiness. Right. Um, you know, you outlined, you know, what you just talked about. Um, does that, you know, and that's with Brazilian people, does that kind of also work if you have someone that's, um, say their perspective is just, they're just feeling stuck in negativity.

Um, is, is that kind of the same concept is except accepting it, or do you think that there's a, you know, something else that people can do, um, to get out of that? Cause I gotta tell you, sometimes I get stuck. In negativity to a certain degree, I've gotten better with it because I've slowly started to recognize things that, and I think it comes with age, but, you know, I recognize things I care about that those things should make me happy because it does make me happy, you know, because there's little things, you know, you smile without realizing you're smiling, you know, and, and you, you, when you recognize those things, then you can really appreciate them more.

But what would you say to someone, um, to shift them out of that negativity phase? We deal with that a lot here in the States.

Andrew Matthews: sure. Um, we need to be ready. I think sometimes we can be stuck and we're also not ready to, to look on the bright side of life. And I respect that. And I understand that because I was there, um, so in many ways, happiness is a decision. I actually remember the day. I know the date where I decided that, Okay.

I've had enough of this. My life has to be better from today. And it was the 19th of October, 1983. And I said, from now on, I'm going to look at other people differently. I'm going to be kinder to myself. I'm going to embrace opportunity. I'm going to take risks. I adopted a, a, um, a little motto. Which didn't include doing, you know, dangerous things.

But my motto was, if in doubt, if in doubt, do it. And it was that basically to jump at any opportunity, meeting people, going places, trying things. And so that was part of a decision where I was on my knees and sometimes we need to be on our knees and we need to understand also that you, you can't make someone else happy.

You know, you, you can't say to somebody else, okay, now I'm ready for you to be, so you need to start seeing things differently. But there are, there are simple things where once we are ready to make some changes, it can be as simple as understanding that, uh, what we, what we talk about matters, complaining, is something to avoid.

Because, for example, we all understand that if you think about something, you talk about it. You think about food, you talk about food. But the reverse is also true. What you talk about, you tend to think about. So the more that you complain about the weather, or your mother in law, or politics, or whatever the case will be, the more you talk about it, the more you think about it.

And so, that's why complaining is a bad idea. Another thing that's, that's critical to our happiness and, and happiness is worth striving for because there's so many benefits. Okay. We, we, we're healthier. We have more energy. Our brain works better when we're happier. Even your doctor's brain works better when you're happier.

Doctors. Doctors diagnose illnesses 30 percent more accurately when they're happy. So get a happy doctor. Um, we, we solve problems 30 percent more, you know, more efficiently, more quickly when we're happy. Um, there's so much that goes along with being and being happy and obviously people want to be around us.

And so we become magnets for dear friends and magnets for opportunity. So it's, it's, uh, there's, there's a lot of reasons why, uh, happiness is a good idea. Um, but okay. So there, I lost my train of thought. Okay. So one of the simple things that we can do ask questions of ourselves, like, what do I like about this?

Because the questions that we ask ourselves How we move toward happiness. What do I like about living here? What do I, what do I like about my job? What do I admire about the people around me? What's good about, what's still good about living in this country, for example? And we find what we look for. If I ask myself questions, what irritates me about my wife?

I will find things.

Rob Valincius: You will find things, but you'll keep it to yourself.

Andrew Matthews: So, so that we find what we look for. Um, and, and so it is with, you know, the, the job we work in and, and, uh, um, yeah. And the, and even in terms of the jobs we have. You don't find the perfect job. You, with a bit of luck, you find a good job and you put energy and you put your love and your personality and kindness and your support and encourage people.

And one day you find that a good job became wonderful, but it didn't start out as wonderful. It started out as being a good job with possibilities,

Rob Valincius: No, I, I agree. I mean, I think there's a lot of people out there too that You know, especially in this market, uh, they should appreciate, uh, some of the, some of the job they have because, uh, the alternative could be something much worse. Uh, and

Andrew Matthews: like, like not having it.

Rob Valincius: Not having one is, yeah, that would not be good.

Um, now forgiveness appears a lot, uh, pretty frequently in your book. Um, can you talk a little bit about how someone can begin the process of forgiveness, especially if you're dealing with, you know, maybe a significant pain or betrayal or something, you know, along those lines,

Andrew Matthews: Yeah. The first thing is to understand that we don't forgive people for their benefit. A lot of Go through life thinking, I need to do Rob a favor and I'll do him this favor of forgiving him for either forgetting my birthday or, or, um,

Rob Valincius: been

Andrew Matthews: you know, yeah. But I don't forgive people for my benefit, for, for, for their benefit.

I don't forgive you for, for your benefit. I forgive people for my benefit because then I can move on. It is part of this acceptance thing, but the, the truth is that, that it's not easy and, uh, let's not pretend that it's easy when, when maybe a lover or a boss has treated us shabbily, maybe. And, and it really hurts.

One of the things that I would suggest is that we begin the forgiveness process by building up our muscles slowly. So we start forgiving people for tiny little things that are easy to forgive, like the person that cuts you off on the freeway. And, you know, we say, well, maybe he's having a bad day. Maybe he didn't see me, but anyway, it's not going to ruin my day.

And maybe, maybe he needs to be somewhere. And, um, and I've probably done the same thing. So we start with little things like that and we develop our forgiveness muscles and gradually we build up to a point where we've developed a habit and an ability to let go of things that formerly we would have would have wanted to hang on to. So, so starting small.

Rob Valincius: I think that's big. Um, cause I, I will say this, I've been guilty of. Someone cuts you off on you within 10 minutes of driving to work and then I'm just pissed and that's how I get into work. Uh, and it's, it does not make your day of work any better if you're, if you're pissed off. Um, so I, I need to get better with that myself and I'm sure there's a lot of other people let, let those little things and sometimes, you know, I'm one of those people and I'm sure there's other people out there like me where.

Um, I act like I let it go, but I just kind of, you know, pushed it deep down and then things, those little things, they pile up and then you just kind of pop, you know? Um, and I think that that's something you, you don't want to do. Like if you're going to practice forgiveness, don't just say you did it, not believe it on you.

Got it. You got to believe it. Let it go. Move on. Right.

Andrew Matthews: Yeah. There's something else that I would add here, Rob, and, um, I think it's, it's critical in. In terms of our relationships with everyone around us, when, when we get a peek into the struggles and the heartaches of almost anybody, almost anybody that we work with, or they could be our neighbor, it can break your heart to, to, to, to know the kind of pain and struggle that, that most people go through. And, and we just. See like the outside of that person. I've got this guy that I play tennis with. Ted, I've played tennis with him for 10 years. And if he seems like he's like bulletproof, you know, he used to be in real estate.

He's got a smart mouth. He makes, you know, say you need a personality transplant and he's that he's just, he's funny, but he's got a big, everyone makes fun of him. He makes fun of everybody. I thought nothing worries this guy, you know, he's, he's been in business forever. As I say, in real estate, where you've got to be tough.

He said to me about a year ago, he said, you know, my life is hell. He says, there's not a day goes by that I don't worry about the fact. Have I said the wrong thing? Have I done the wrong thing. He said, he said, my life is so traumatic. I couldn't believe it. I thought of all people, of all people, not, not him.

And it reminds me that so many of us are dealing with things that others never see. And we've got colleagues at work and their kids are ill or their parents are dying. We, we see people every day. We never know that they've got a terrible secret. They're broke and they don't know how they're going to make it through the next week.

And, and the question is not, why are some people sometimes so difficult or thoughtless or hard to get along with? The question is, how do some people even survive with, with what they're dealing with? It's, um, It's a miracle how some people make it through. And so if, if we, if we say to ourselves, you know, I don't know 10 percent of what these people are dealing with, specifically the guy that cuts you off on the freeway or the person that's rude to you in the supermarket.

I don't know what's going on with them. Then sometimes it doesn't even need to come back to forgiveness. It just comes back to more like understanding. That it's nothing to do with me. It's just about the trauma and the stress and the worries that these people are going through.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I mean, I think if more people were more understanding, you would, you definitely wouldn't have as much, you know, road rage incidents. And, um, I don't think the world would be kumbaya, but I think it would be, uh, there would be less violence in the world. Um, you know, what do you think is the biggest difference between people who are happy versus people who are unhappy?

Andrew Matthews: Happy people focus on what they have. I've got a cartoon in Bouncing Back in the first panel. Maybe you saw it. There's a really happy guy and he's got a slice of cake that he's about to devour. And the caption is, happy people focus on what they have. And obviously he's happy about his slice of cake. And in the second panel of the cartoon, there's a guy that's looking really miserable and angry and he's got a whole cake minus one slice.

And the caption to that is that unhappy people focus on what's missing. And that is, that is it. We've, we've all seen people that are rich and famous and they're, and they've got everything and they're unhappy. And, uh, maybe you've been to places like Bali or Mexico or traveled through Africa. You see many people who have so very little and yet they are so happy and, and grateful for, for what they have.

So it's, it's, uh, happy people focus on what they have. And, and the great thing about gratitude is that you can't be grateful and miserable at the same time. Try it.

Rob Valincius: It's true.

Andrew Matthews: You can't be grateful and angry at the same time. Um, so it just comes back to that idea of asking ourselves, what do I, what do I like about this?

What's good about that? And that's how we bounce back from really any situation that, that we think. You know, I, I wish to hell I was never in this.

Rob Valincius: So, so you mentioned gratitude. Why, why do you think gratitude matters?

Andrew Matthews: I think it's, it's really the foundation for happiness because it gets us to focus on, on what we have and, um, and, and happy people are joyful. They're, they're, they're, you cannot, you cannot look around you and say, I have this beautiful dog, I have an extraordinary wife, I, I'm happy that I can breathe fresh, you know, basically clean air, I have enough to eat, I, I'm doing something with my life that has some meaning. You cannot, you cannot be grateful for whatever it is that's in your life and not be happy. I mean they're, they're part of the same equation.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. And, and, um, you know, I, I talked about this on the podcast, you know, a few times because I do like talking about the, you know, the psychology side of things. Cause I, I was, I wanted to be a psychologist and, um, you know, I think it was, it was maybe four or five years ago. I was, uh, you know, I felt like I was in a, um, Kind of like one of those seeing you go, it's like a carnival and there's just mirrors everywhere and you can't get out.

It's where I felt I was, uh, you know, personally in my mind because I would get up and I would just sometimes I would just be miserable for no reason. Um, and I think. I decided in my head, I'm like, okay, I need to be more grateful because I, I, I have a good job. I have a car. I can pay my bills. I have a beautiful fiance.

I have my dogs. They're, they're like my kids, you know, and I have a place to live and I have food. Like there should be no reason why I would just wake up for no reason and be miserable. And, um, That has drastically helped my impact of of how I look at life. I'm still not perfect I still get you know irritated and you know, whatever it's that I I have plenty to work on We'll say that but I do feel like from a gratitude perspective.

I do appreciate More of the things that I have in life and I don't just I'm not the you know The angry guy with the piece of cake and you know, he's missing a piece I don't feel that I'm as bad with that anymore, but I do think I do think social media plays a really bad role in that too, you know, um, if you're on social media a lot, all you see is these people, you know, they're, they're in Bali, right?

They're partying or they have tons of money or they have big, nice houses and, you know, expensive cars, but at the end of the day, you know, you know, I, You talk to some of these people and they're, they're just fucking miserable. Like, you know, like you said, you know, these people that you wouldn't expect to be miserable.

They're just, they just hate their lives. And you know, a lot of it is just a facade. It's just what you see, but it's not, it's not reality. You know, um, and you have a lot of these kids that are growing up with this and this is what they see. So this is what they expect. And, uh, you know, you're starting to see kind of that.

Culture shock, you know, when it's, it doesn't work out or, you know, um, there's adversity involved.

Andrew Matthews: Yeah, we're drawn into comparing ourselves and, and say, well, it looks like he's, he's, he's richer and more talented and having more fun than I am. And it's, it's all just an illusion. And, and as you say, a lot of our young people are getting a false sense of, of how the real world is. And, um, Yeah, it's it's tough for many of our young people.

I'm I'm just writing a book now for for teen. I wrote a book for teenagers uh 20 years ago and now I'm in the process of updating it because as we all see the world has moved on dramatically in 20 years and and it's much tougher for our teenagers. And, um, and, and it's, it's changed for a lot of adults as well.

I mean, I was stunned. I was watching TV last night and there was a host of a, of a chat show and she was saying how anxious she gets about answering the telephone. I mean, who, because everyone messages these days, so she doesn't, and she's a TV host, stressed about answering the telephone. I mean, the whole, the world is, is a different one now.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I mean, I would say if you wrote something 20 years ago at this point, especially for, for kids, it definitely needs to be updated. Uh, and, uh, I'll be interested to see that, uh, because I, I gotta say, um, you know. There's hope. I think there's hope. I think, I think we're getting back to kind of how things were.

I grew up in a time where If you didn't like somebody or you had issues, you talked it out, you either came out of that conversation friends again or friends, or you just didn't talk to each other. Um, and yeah, there's, there's always going to be bullies. There's always going to be bullying. There's always going to be people that are not nice.

I mean, that's just human nature, but, um, you know, I, I think we need to be in a place where you can have deferring opinions, but still just. You know, be able to be friends. I mean, that's kind of how the, our country was created. It was, it was people with different opinions all got together and said, Hey, we should, we should form this country, you know?

Um, and because they didn't like the opinions of the people that they were with originally, you know, um, And I don't know how it is there, uh, you know, um, with a lot of that stuff, but I hear it, we're in a weird transition phase and I hope that, uh, we continue on a path where we can have intellectual conversations, um, and maybe not have the same exact opinion on it because it'd be silly if everyone had the same opinion, you know?

Andrew Matthews: Yeah, I mean, certainly the, the pendulum has been swinging so far towards a situation where you have your tribe and you basically cut off people who aren't part of your tribe and, and you don't talk things unfriend people that, that don't fit and, um, we need to begin to swing back to, right? To a point where we respect each other's opinions and say, Rob, um. You see it different differently, but I understand your life experience is different and I respect that.

Rob Valincius: We'll get back there. I think we'll get back there. Um, you know, give, give it some time, give it some time. Um, you know, we, we talked a lot about jobs. Um, you know, uh, let's kind of, we'll start to, to, uh, wind down, but how can you enjoy a job? You don't even like, cause I know that there's probably a lot of people out there that work for a place that they're just, you know, maybe, maybe they got a degree for something and they, they needed a job and this is what they got.

Yeah. And it has nothing to do with their degree or whatever the case is.

Andrew Matthews: yeah. Number 1 is, and I touched on this briefly is. If we imagine that we don't have that job, that can really help. Because very often we complain a lot about something and it could be, it could be a wife or it could be a job we have until we no longer have it. And, and then, um, you know, imagining that we don't have that job that is not ideal and suddenly we can't pay the bills and suddenly we don't have those friends and colleagues and all the interaction and everything comes That comes from that job that is actually not perfect, but, but still is a very good job to have.

So imagining showing up at work on Monday and your boss saying go home, that can, that can help us to be more appreciative. The next thing is to, uh, realize that, that the more that we can develop our skills and, and do our best, we're happiest when we do our best. We don't do our best to please our boss.

We do our best because that's when we feel best about ourselves. So regardless of whether our colleagues are giving their all, we're happiest when we give our all, our best. And, and, uh, it doesn't even mean that we have to work there forever or for even another six months. Maybe you're going to quit in six months.

Maybe you're going to quit at 4. 30, but until, until you quit at 4. 30, the way that you'll be happiest is by giving your best. Also when you give your best to whatever it is you're doing in your job, you're you're developing your skills and you have the best chance of somebody noticing what you bring to the workplace and you have the best chance of being headhunted by someone who sees you and says I see what you're doing here Rob and I'm hoping that You can come and work for me in, in my corporation, or as we continue to do our best in a job that we don't think is ideal, we develop our own confidence to a point where perhaps we can go out and do our own thing.

So there's so many good things that come from giving our absolute best in a job that is not ideal. And the other thing, uh, and I touched on that briefly is, um, that we don't find the perfect job. Um, there was, uh, um, a professor at Kansas, um, University, University of Kansas, uh, Shane Lopez. He wanted to find out, um, how it is that some people land in jobs that they absolutely love.

And you hear a lot these days about, you've got to follow your passion. So, he thought, I'm going to find out whether these people that love their jobs followed their passion. So, he did a survey of 8, 500 people. And of those 8, 500, 1, 100 or I think maybe, what's that, 13 percent said, Yeah, we really love our job.

So then he drilled down and he interviewed all of those people. How did you come to find this job that you love? And basically none of them talked about following your passion. Almost to a person, this is what they said. I didn't find the perfect job. I found a good job, and I put my heart and soul into it, and I cut, encouraged people, and I was kind to people, and we built a team, and we supported each other, and we surprised each other, and they said one day, I woke up, and I found that my good job had become wonderful.

Rob Valincius: That's, I mean, I think if more people did that, you would definitely see an uptick in happiness. For sure. Uh, because there's definitely a lot of people I think that are in those spots. Uh, and I do think that if you If you plug more into what you're doing, you'd be surprised, um, you know, what you find that you're good at on top of that too, you know, um, Let's end with this.

So, um, for, for my listeners who might be struggling right now, what is, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, gratitude and happiness and forgiveness. What is an exercise or mindset shift that someone after they listen to this podcast can immediately start to help them, you know, bounce back.

Andrew Matthews: Right. So we just say, my mission is not to be happy for the rest of my life. My, my mission is to make today better than it's been. And so my first question that I'm going to ask myself is, what is one thing I have to be grateful for, for waking up today? What is one thing I'm grateful for? Why am I happy that I opened my eyes?

And then as we proceed through the day, what We, we say, what is it? What is it that I love about my cup of coffee? What is it that I love about living here? We ask, ask ourselves questions about what, what is good? It's not perfect, but what is good about this life I have? And we develop the habit of looking for good things.

And our mind is very much like, uh, a radio set in a sense that we, we tune into a frequency. And as we get a habit of looking for good things, what is it that I love about my best friend? What is it that I'm grateful about my mom? And we say, well, you know, it sounds a little bit Pollyanna ish, you know, is, is that really what happy people do?

And it is what happy people do. It's, it's a point that you get to where you say, I now understand that I find what I look for, and I'm going to begin looking for good things in everything around me. And the more that we find, then the more that we find. And the next thing that we can do is we can forgive ourselves for not being perfect. A lot of us grew up with, uh, feedback from teachers and parents that said you're either stupid or you're unlovable or you're never going to amount to anything. We all had a slice of that and there's a point at which we, we need to say, people sometimes ask the question, do you need to love yourself? And you need to at least like yourself because We create the life that we feel that we deserve.

And if I don't like myself, I'll stay in a relationship where people treat me badly. I will stay in a job where people don't respect me and I will overlook opportunities that could have brought me a better life because I say to myself, I don't deserve it. Uh, there's something that That I recommend that that we get a photo of ourselves when we were like three years old when we didn't have all the answers Um, and, you know, we were just living life the best way we knew how, and we put that photo of ourselves somewhere that we can see it, and we treat ourselves the same as we would treat that little three year old, because we still don't have all the answers, and we are still just living life the best way we know how.

Rob Valincius: I love that, you know, cause that three year old. I mean, he pooped his pants. He's owning it, you know, so if you, if you poop your pants figuratively, I mean, maybe really own it, man, you know, uh, I think, uh, you know, I try to, one thing about myself is I always try to make, uh, funny things come to light, you know, like if I get really angry, uh, my brother's the same way.

It's funny. If he, if he's listens to this episode, if we get really angry, Well, I actually end up just laughing because at the end of the day, there's not much you can do. So like, if it's something just outrageous, if you find me cackling, I'm probably immensely frustrated. You can only laugh about it because it's like, what else are you going to do?

You know, um, and, and everyone has their own coping mechanisms, but that's, that's one of mine. I always think it's funny, but me and my brother are the same way. I, I'm five years older, um, and we'll, you can always tell when we're really, really angry because we'll just laugh about it. Uh, but look, it was, um, it was a pleasure having you on, uh, Andrew.

Um, do me a favor, plug yourself to everybody where they can find your books and your content. If you got anything coming up, um, that they can check out.

Andrew Matthews: Thank you, Rob. Well, um, thank you for letting me share some of my thoughts. And for those of you listening, if, if you'd like to explore some of these ideas a little more, um, my website is andrewmatthews. com. I have a newsletter, which consists of very few words and a cartoon every 2 weeks. That you're most welcome to subscribe to.

All of my books are on Amazon. They're not in bookstores in America. They're in bookstores in, in, um, many other countries have been in America, but currently are not in America, but they are available on Amazon. Um, Andrew Matthews is spelt with two T's. So we've talked about books like Bouncing Back, Being Happy, Follow Your Heart.

Uh, they are as, uh, available as eBooks and also in hard copy and, um, Bouncing Back and Follow Your Heart are also available as audible books with my Australian accent.

Rob Valincius: Love it. Love it. Uh, I'm an audio booker. So I'll uh, I'll grab, uh, We'll see. I'll take a look. Maybe I'll do bouncing back or being happy. Maybe being happy. Which, which one is best to start with?

Andrew Matthews: Well, for people that have never read much self help and, um, You know, maybe struggling a little bit. Um, being happy is a, is a good starter. Um, you're not a struggler. Um, for people who are really trying to bounce back, then obviously bouncing back, how you rebound from disappointment and disaster is helpful.

And on career and living and finding meaning and purpose in our life and work and enjoying our work and our jobs. probably follow your heart is a good option.

Rob Valincius: Okay, okay. Maybe I'll get them all. Maybe I'll get them all and, and, uh, Listen my heart out, but I definitely gotta, maybe I'll do the, uh, The, the Kindle book too. Cause I, I gotta see some of your drawings. Your drawings are, are, are good. I like them. Um, definitely, definitely good, uh, to have kind of a little, um, antidote, antidote, you know, when you're, when you're doing that.

So, um, my podcast is drink o'clock pod on all socials, uh, drink o'clock podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts and, uh, you know, we'll try to get this episode up as soon as possible. So, uh, just wanted to thank you again, uh, Andrew, I know you're a busy guy, and, uh, hopefully we'll, let's, uh, let's do this again on your next best selling book.

Andrew Matthews: I would love to. It's my pleasure, Rob. Thank you.

Rob Valincius: Awesome, brother, you have a great, a great day, morning, I should say. 

Outro Music