The Maniac With No Knees: Tyler Kania's Journey from Trauma to Triumph

Tyler Kania—rugby standout, mental health advocate, and author of The Maniac With No Knees—joins me to share his raw journey through bipolar disorder, career-ending injuries, and near-death experiences. From mania to memoir, Tyler's story is one of grit, healing, and hope.

🔗 Follow Tyler on Instagram: @tylerkania
📘 Get Tyler’s Book: The Maniac With No Knees on Amazon

Transcript

Intro Song

Rob Valincius: I am so used to starting my podcast with Thirsty Thursday, so that like the, and most of the time I didn't even release the, well, no, that, that's a lie. I release the episodes on Thursdays typically, but, uh, it's weird record, like when you record so long on a specific day and then, and then you switch.

It's like, especially 'cause it's the weekend, right? It's Friday. So it's, it's, I'll be actually drinking a little bit today. Normally I don't drink anymore during the week. Um, and I, I've noticed my, my episodes tend to be a little bit better 'cause I'm not a, I'm not an idiot by the end. But, uh, this is the Drink Clock podcast.

My name's Rob Valincius and I have the pleasure of having with me. Tyler Kania

Tyler Kania: Kania.

Rob Valincius: Kania, you said Kania, um, now you wrote a memoir called The Maniac with No Niece, and that's about your journey as a bipolar rugby player. Welcome to the show, brother.

Tyler Kania: Thanks for having me.

Rob Valincius: So, uh, I definitely wanted you to have to have you on because, uh, I have, uh, bipolar that runs in my family. Um, I don't have it, uh, but I grew up with him.

My stepdad, um, has it pretty bad, and, uh, my stepmom who passed away last year had it pretty bad. Um, so we went through the. You know, the manic episodes and the, the, the crazy shit that goes along with, with, uh, bipolar. 'cause my stepdad was always good with, um, he was always, he always worked, he always did his thing.

And then, but, um, he had a horrible thing happen with his, uh, his dad and his brother. And, uh, around the holidays he would just not, he would decide to just not take his medication. And then before you know it, he's acting crazy. He's got, um, he's having seizures because he's just, he just stopped taking his seizure meds.

'cause you know, once you're on the bipolar medicine, then they also want you to take anti-seizure meds so that you don't, uh, get seizures from it. And it, it's, I grew up with it, so I, I understand probably a little bit more than the average person. Um, not as much as someone that actually has it. So, um, I was intrigued getting you on the show, but, um, talk a little bit about, um, your early life growing up and eventually kind of.

What led you like, you know, I know you, you're big into rugby. I know that that's why we didn't record yesterday. So talk a little bit about what got you into your love of rugby and all that.

Tyler Kania: Yeah, sure. well, I grew up in Columbia, Connecticut. It's a, a small rural farm town where, you know, the only restaurant in town is at the car dealership. Um, you know, I grew up pretty wealthy, um, you know, white educated nuclear family, a lot of property. Um, my older brother was, you know, a genius. Um, he, Won the state geography, B in fourth grade, and

Rob Valincius: Jesus.

Tyler Kania: on the reading and writing on his SATs. He's a lawyer now. I used to joke that, you know, he could read a novel in one trip to the toilet. Um, but I wasn't like that at all. I was into sports, um, you know, football, baseball, basketball, swimming, track, golf, pretty much anything really. Um, football was my main sport for a while. Um, in high school, I ended up, we didn't have a high school in our town, so I went to school in this inner city that was dubbed Heroin Town, USA by 60 Minutes.

Rob Valincius: Jesus Christ.

Tyler Kania: it was the lowest ranked high school in the state of Connecticut. Um, more Spanish speakers than English speakers. we had a daycare for the students' kids, but I really learned a lot there. Um, you know, I might not have had like great college placement resources or anything like that, but. learned about cultures and I learned about people that had less than I did and you know, people that are immigrants. Um, so I think, you know, I learned a lot more about the world there than, you know, most people would learn at like a expensive prep school or something. I was the captain of the football team. Um, I was a safety, a long snap snapper and a backup running back. defense was

Rob Valincius: a hell of a skillset, dude.

Tyler Kania: yeah, yeah. You know, well, I didn't actually hit my growth spurt until college. Um, so like my freshman year I was like, how can I get on the field? And I just got obsessed with long snapping. And as it turns out, long snapping is the same motion really as like tossing a rugby ball. Um, so in college, you know, I had always wanted to play rugby and we tried to form a team when I was in high school, but there was no. Youth rugby east of the Connecticut River, um, up until recently. Uh, but my dad always played, so I had a ball around the house. And so, you know, when I got to college, I, I could have, played at like a D three football school, but, you know, I knew that my skillset, you was better for other sports. So I gave rugby a shot you know, the first trail I was ever in, um, I off this slick behind the back pass and the guy scored and everyone was yelling at me for doing some showboat stuff.

And I was like, wow, I think I just found my sport. And, and so, you know, I became the starting fly half, which is like, uh, quarterback in rugby. You know, I call the plays, do the kicking, the play, calling, uh, passing Um, and we won three championships in college. I. Um, I was selected to, you know, the conference All-star team every year and was MVP of the Connecticut Cup, Connecticut Cup Tournament. Um, and after the tournament, um, this head coach of a premier rugby team recruited me to play on his, um, sevens rugby team. And, you know, that was my first exposure to playing alongside guy guys that were like on team USA or, you know, had represented countries like Fiji, you know, from Australia or Scotland.

Um, you know, and I could play with them. Um, it was a, a speed adjustment at first, definitely. um, you know, I had the dexterity to, to, you know, pass and kick with anybody. Um, but then when I

Rob Valincius: I,

Tyler Kania: 24, I ruptured my patellar tendon for the first time. Um, it's a pretty rare injury. It happens once for every 147,000 human years. Um, and I would later do it a second time, which has odds that are like discovering life on other planets.

Rob Valincius: Jesus, dude. I tore my ACL. So I mean, I know it's not, I don't think it's as bad as the patellar, but I gotta tell you, it fucking sucks. So I feel your pain and I can only imagine doing it twice. Um, but before you get into this though, I do want, I do wanna ask you, can you explain to my viewers, 'cause. I gotta tell you, I don't know shit about rugby.

It's fun to watch, but I don't know. Shit. Can you just kind of give us a breakdown of like what rugby actually is?

Tyler Kania: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: of like football kind of with mixed with soccer and I don't know, there's a, but it's like almost like a bunch of sports mixed into one, right.

Tyler Kania: I don't know. I think it's the, the most pure sport. Um, it's, there's two variations of it. There's fifteens, rugby and sevens, rugby. You know, those are the number of players on each team that are on the field. fifteens, rugby requires more technical skill sevens, rugby requires more speed. typically, you know, you can only pass the ball backwards, but you can kick the ball forwards. Um, you know, once you get tackled ruck forms over your head where the defense can only get the ball, if they over your body, they can't go around the side, they have to come over your body. So people come over and sort of block someone named a scrum half or someone else comes over, grabs the ball from the bottom of the ruck and passes it, and that's the next phase. So there's no plays play doesn't stop. It keeps going. you know, like 80 minutes like soccer. and you know, the only real stops are when someone drops the ball forward or the ball goes outta bounds or there's, you know, an infraction, like a high tackle or something like that. hands in the ruck running around the side.

Um, but yeah, it's a fun sport, you know, if, if you're coordinated and you have a a, a gas tank and you know, you're not scared of hitting other people, you know, tackling is a lot more, um. You know, mature than in football. In football you can use your helmet and your shoulder pads as weapons. You can hit higher. Um, rugby. If you tackle like football, you're not gonna last very long at all. Um, you know, you have to tackle, you know, below the, the knees is advisable. Um, it's not a game of inches like football. It's a game of possession. So if the guy falls forward a yard, no big deal. You're just trying to get him to the ground. So you don't have to really push him backwards necessarily, unless he's right on the goal line.

Rob Valincius: That's pretty wild, dude. Um. Yeah, I, I, I, I just know, and, and you know, obviously I'm a big, I'm a big football fan, so, um, Jordan Otta is one of the best left tackles in, in all of football. And he, he, he was a seventh round pick from Australian rugby, just a big fucking rugby player. And he, they turned him into one of the best offensive tackles in football.

Uh, the Eagles have arguably one of the best, uh, position coaches in probably all of sports. He, he just, whatever he does to the fucking offensive people, offensive line people that he trains, they just always turn out good. Like, we never have an issue with that. But he's probably one of my favorite players on our football team, just 'cause he's just a genuine person, but he is large.

Like, I couldn't imagine, like, if you watch old videos of him playing rugby, I would've just quit. Like, I would've just ran the other way. Like, you do not wanna get hit by that guy running. He's just a big man, you know.

Tyler Kania: Yeah, definitely.

Rob Valincius: Um, but yeah, go on. So, so you tore your patella tendon a second time.

Tyler Kania: Yeah. Well that's way later on in the story,

Rob Valincius: Okay.

Tyler Kania: the first time I did it, you know when you're an undiagnosed bipolar and you're dealt trauma, I. Um, mimic episodes, time to happen. And so that was my first ever, you know, as far as I know, mimic episode. There are times in, in the past that it could have been, you know, characterized as that.

But, um, I basically, I quit my six figure job in cybersecurity sales. I quit rugby. I was broken up with, and I moved to Idaho and kind of just traveled across the west for a while. I stayed with my, my best friend who was building a canoe to paddle from Montana to the Gulf of Mexico.

Rob Valincius: Jesus Christ. That's crazy.

Tyler Kania: for a while and went on a road trip.

Um, I was still recovering from my rupture patella tendon, and I tried to hike rim to rim to rim of the Grand Canyon, and I nearly died. You can read about that in my book. Um, but then, you know, I ended up returning home. got a job at a cybersecurity startup and I was making a quarter million dollars by the age of 26. you know, my, moved to a farmhouse, which had like an indoor pool with, um, uh, a, a volleyball court with lights. You know, we had all these amenities. In, in the back there was a big barn with different horses that were stalled out by like, you know, different renters. Um, and this one particular renter, you know, he was from Oklahoma, he robbed us over a dozen times.

He threatened to kill us. He us stuck in the middle of a domestic violence dispute between him and his girl. Um, he had stolen her horses and her car and her cell phone, and she thought he was gonna hurt the horses. So I was like, I gotta move outta here. Um, I moved to Boston. Um, Boston was kind of where my illness really started to emerge. Um, in a really concerning way. You know, I was doing incredible in my vocation. I was making just so much money. But, um, you know, I, I was starting to experience extreme paranoia. Like I thought my Amazon Echo was listening to my business deals.

Rob Valincius: I mean it, I mean, it might,

Tyler Kania: yeah.

Rob Valincius: it might, but probably not in the way you thought

Tyler Kania: Yeah. Um, and then my car got stolen and I assumed it was by the Boston Mafia and they're out to get me. Um, and then one time I spilled soda on the floor and I across the street and instead of buying paper towels, I bought 12 copies of the Boston Globe to clean it up. Um, yeah, so,

Rob Valincius: like some, uh, what movie was that? Uh, this Adam Sandler movie where he just cleaned it. The the kid Big daddy where he just, everything just, he just puts ba newspaper down that, yeah, a hundred percent.

Tyler Kania: Yeah. Um, and my substance abuse habits had been spiraling out of control, so I kind of decided even though I was making so much money that I should move back home to Connecticut to my parents' house. and then, you know, things definitely didn't improve and, you know, I ended up, know, quitting my job like impulsively manically. you know, I basically figured like I can't have a job if I'm gonna figure out what's going on in my brain. Um, so I had spent the next year reading about 300 pages of literature per day. Um, morning till night, um, infinite Jest in like a week and a half. it was my first real era of like, proclivity when it came to reading. 'cause I didn't wanna be in my world, so I was escaping to other people's worlds. Um, but at the end of that year, you know, I was trying to apply back to jobs. I was applying on realistically to companies like. You know, trying to manage the Bank of America account for Google and stuff like that. and I got pretty distraught.

And I, on the last day of April in 2021, I attempted suicide. put a rope around my head, uh, a noose. And, you know, I looked outside and the, the sun kind of came out of the clouds. And I realized in that moment that my good friend was getting married the next day and I didn't wanna, like, ruin it for him. So, you know, I put it down and I went to the wedding and, you know, it's just amazing things that people do for you when you're struggling. Like they have no idea the impact, but grabbing you a drink or dancing with you on the dance floor, know, stuff like that just went a long way. Um, you know, and I. When I told you earlier that I had quit rugby, you know, I mean that I had thrown it completely outta my life. That meant some of my closest rugby friends. and I got invited to, uh, a birthday party. This was a, a week after the suicide attempt, um, for old rugby teammate. And, you know, I hadn't seen these guys in four and a half years. you know, I didn't want them to see me because I was, had, I had been their captain with endless confidence. And now, you know, I was coming off a suicide attempt, hadn't worked in a year. but I decided to go and, you know, they tell me that our old college coach is now coaching the men's team, the Hartford Wanderers, and they told me to come to an exhibition match the following week. So I go to this match, don't wanna talk to anyone wearing jeans. but the coach's wife is there and she had been a huge source of confidence for me in, in college. Um, and she was like, trie, you gotta get back out there. You're great. And so I don't know how it happened, but know, with 10 minutes left in the game, an injury occurred and I borrowed someone's cleats and shorts and ran on the field. And the first time I touched the ball in four and a half years, I assisted the game winning score. Um, so then it was back into my life, you know, um,

Rob Valincius: That's pretty wild. They allow that.

Tyler Kania: it, it was a exhibition match. It was just a

Rob Valincius: Oh, okay.

Tyler Kania: Hartford versus New Haven.

Rob Valincius: Okay. They're like, fuck it. Bring him in.

Tyler Kania: The

Rob Valincius: The other team's probably like, who the fuck is this guy? Yeah, go ahead. If you're bringing people in from the stands.

Tyler Kania: coach, so he knew exactly what I was capable of.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Well, I mean, the other team, could you imagine like you're, you know, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring in that guy, you know? And little do they know you were very good. You know,

Tyler Kania: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: it was a smart play. It was a smart play by the coach.

Tyler Kania: oh, definitely. Um, but yeah, you know, it, it was, it was so crazy and it makes you think, you know about divinity because, you know, two weeks earlier I had a new noose around my neck and, you know, then I had new teammates patting me on the back and, you know, telling me how great I am, telling me to come to their next match or whatever. so I got back into rugby. I had missed that community. I had missed the goals that come with it. and it was really good until I got hurt. Um, but then serendipitously the next day, the head coaching position opened up for the Eastern Connecticut State University Women's Rugby team, which is eight minutes from my house. Um, and they had a week before the season, and if they didn't have a coaching time, they were gonna have to forfeit the season. and I didn't have any of my credentials, so I had to. Basically pulled two all-nighters to get my, you know, USA rugby certification, my sexual harassment certification, concussion protocol, like everything. but I did it and you know, at this point I hadn't really had real human connection or in the last, like five years and now I was basically in charge of creating a community for 30 college women that was inclusive and competitive. Um, but I found that I was a natural at it. you know, I worked really hard on preparation and drills and, you know, I worked hard on being a coach that taught them life lessons too. Um, you know, I was doing quite well in cryptocurrency. I'd gotten into that a few years earlier and I sold some of my tokens and I bought the team, you know, new balls, equipment, pads, even books and tournament fees. and. You know, I was really doing everything I could to help them. We weren't instant success, you know, we lost to Tufts University 31, nothing

Rob Valincius: Oof.

Tyler Kania: season.

Tufts had beaten their opponents 132 to seven collectively. Um, but after

Rob Valincius: wow.

Tyler Kania: I just got obsessed with film and just studied it like relentlessly, you know, 8, 9, 10 times on half speed. Showed it to the girls, showed them what every player on Tufts was capable of doing. you know, we ended up playing them again in the conference championship on their campus. you know, we knew that we were gonna win. We knew how much more prepared we were than they were. Um, and we did, we beat them 29 to 10. You know, it was awesome. I had gone from attempting suicide to winning a conference championship in my first year coaching collegiate women's rugby. And I

Rob Valincius: It's awesome.

Tyler Kania: had built this community that. We're not just my players, but my friends. they were so gung-ho about rugby that they wanted to keep playing after the season ended. I registered them for a tournament in New York City and we trained for an extra month. Um, had a great time, had a great awards dinner where I painted, um, little paper plate awards for each of the players. Um, you know, and I went into the off season kind of wishing it could keep going. I started a cryptocurrency company during the off season. It was, uh, a decentrally owned and operated professional rugby team. Um, basically what I was trying to do was change the governance and the decision making of a sports team by, you know. Democratizing voting powers for like, things like who makes a lineup or who makes a roster. So if you were like someone with a rugby accreditation, you would get an NFT, which would give you a certain amount of voting power. And so I got invited to the largest cryptocurrency conference in North America and pitched it to all kinds of venture capitalists, technologists, even, um, Elon Musk's brother, Kimball Musk.

Rob Valincius: That's cool.

Tyler Kania: yeah, I went manic while I was out there. I guess it was just the excitement and drugs and stuff like that. um, you know, that can be a pretty powerful tool, you know, being manic around, you know, trying to pitch your idea to venture capitalists in a bar at 2:00 AM Like, you talk fast, you think fast, you

Rob Valincius: It's like doing a line of coke. I've never done cocaine, but I can imagine that's probably what it's like.

Tyler Kania: Right. So, you know, I built a, a, a big, you know, database of contacts while I was out there you know, I was having these grandiose thoughts. I thought I was gonna change the world. I thought I was gonna be on SportsCenter and get a seven figure investment. Um, and, you know, I flew back home and I was still manic.

And you know, one of the things about being manic is, know, you're just focused on a goal. You have no risk tolerance. Um, you're unable to think that anything that you do could be bad because you're just so high on yourself. so I basically trusted this guy online with the secret phrase to my cryptocurrency wallet,

Rob Valincius: Mm

Tyler Kania: from me in 15 minutes.

Rob Valincius: oh.

Tyler Kania: and so it gets worse. Um, you know, my parents were away. I started drinking. Um, the next day I have to coach the women's rugby team in an indoor practice. I was still manic, still outta my mind, completely distraught from losing my life savings. and I, I yelled at them for the first time ever. I was disorganized you know, just all over the place with drills. Um, and they had brought three new players that day. you know, so they were really pissed that, you know, the first time I had ever fucked up was, you know, with three new people around.

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Tyler Kania: Um, so, you know, what I didn't know at the time was that their old coach was forming a coup to try and oust me. had gotten a job, uh, a more, you know, lucrative position at a different rugby school. Um, but realized that wasn't good. So he was trying to lobby with the leadership of our team to get his job back. And so when I screwed up that. That, um, practice that was kind of their opportunity, the ones that were kind of on his side. Um, and so they called me into like a leadership meeting and three outta the four girls, just berated me for an hour, didn't gimme the opportunity to talk, and I was really, you know, confused.

I didn't understand why they were treating me that way, like they wouldn't have had a season without me. I messed up one practice when I had lost my life savings.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, it's fucked up dude. One, one fucking, you know, slip and they're like, see you, dude.

Tyler Kania: yeah, so I left

Rob Valincius: Wow.

Tyler Kania: I left that, um, that meeting pretty, pretty pissed and really upset. told a girl, and I should have never have done this because you never wanna put a young woman in this kind of situation. But I said, if I lose this job, I might kill myself. Um, and you know, the next day the human resources department at the university launched an investigation into me. Um, you know, I ended up resigning, because I didn't want the chance that they might fire me and lose the opportunity to coach at another university.

Rob Valincius: Yeah,

Tyler Kania: I really didn't think that there was any particular rule I had broken, you know, in the university's bylaws. But it was clear that I had lost the support of my team. Um,

Rob Valincius: tough.

Tyler Kania: that kind of ensued a six week period of like extreme suicidal depression. Um, the only time I left my bed was to walk my dog and I would see illusions of myself hanging from trees. Um, and you know, it was just constantly on my mind, but it eventually gave way to another minute episode and I kind of figured, well, it's gonna be pretty embarrassing when my friends find out I lost this coaching job that I love so much. So I gotta find a new coaching job. And I just got in my car and I drove south. I stopped in Nashville, played rugby for a week for the Nashville Grizzlies, uh, with my college roommate. and while I was there, found an opportunity to coach U 19 boys, um, in the most dangerous neighborhood in America, orange Mound in Memphis. Um,

Rob Valincius: Yeah, Memphis is tough. Memphis is not, not a good place to be.

Tyler Kania: yeah. So I drove down to Memphis and I got the job you know, I had a lot of fun there, like on Beal Street and stuff like that. Um, you know, I looked at the opportunity as a step out of my comfort zone. Um, I looked at it as, you know, the opportunity to mentor kids who, you know, are in really tough situations in life, you know, surrounded by gang violence and stuff like that. Um, but, you know, I was suicidal and I was leaving my, my. Network of, of friends and family. Um, so I moved down there and on my fourth day there I had this tremendous panic attack. started gobbling out medication. I had 90 day supply of my meds. 'cause I had just moved and I took like five different meds. I, at this point, I had been cycling through all kinds of medications and one was an early stage trial antipsychotic that made me gay for three months. Um, so

Rob Valincius: What

Tyler Kania: really tough. Yeah. It was awful. It wasn't even available in pharmacies. I had to pick up the samples from my psychiatrist's office.

Rob Valincius: dude, that is fucking wild

Tyler Kania: Oh. It was traumatizing. Especially in that time of my life because I was struggling so much. And then I also had to figure out what the hell was going on.

Rob Valincius: dude. Like yeah, I'm, and I can agree with you. Like my, I know my stepdad, I mean, my mom would, well for, for one, he could never take his own pills. My mom would give them to him, uh, because she couldn't trust him. Uh, and then, 'cause he's, he, he did some crazy shit. He, I mean, he's taken like seventies xanaxes at one time.

Um, he, he's, he, and he's survived. Like they didn't have to pump his fucking stomach. Like there's been some crazy times where like I I, he's a tank. I don't know how the fuck he does it, but, um, he, he, he was, he was on, I he, he's definitely still has to be on a decent amount of pills. Um, but there's times, I mean, you know, you're, I think the problem, 'cause I was gonna be a psychologist.

I think the problem is, is, you know, when you're looking at psychiatry and psychology, the psychiatrist really doesn't, they just wanna give you meds and kind of get you outta there. Right? Whereas a psychologist kind of wants to talk about things and I think it's tough with bipolar 'cause you 100% can't go unmedicated.

You ha But you have to find the right cocktail. And that takes, that takes a long time. And then after a while you have to change it 'cause your body gets used to it, um, to a certain degree. Right. And then you have to play with it, and then you have another transition period. So I know that, that, that can play like crazy.

Um, not just with your body, but mentally too, you know?

Tyler Kania: Yeah. And you know, at the time I was only diagnosed with clinical depression. Um, so they weren't really treating it right. We'd get to the treatment that's later in the story. But, you know, when I took all of these pills, 40, 50 pills, I got severe serotonin syndrome and so I had to be hospitalized for three nights. so I moved back to Connecticut. I. was pretty much suicidally depressed for a month before my psychiatrist gave me some advice and I went to the ER and I just said, look, all I wanna do to kill myself, I try myself before I try. I'm gonna try again. Like, can you help me? Um, and so they stuck me in kind of this place called the Purple Wing, which, just had a lot of like attics and homeless people, like looking for a place to stay for the night. It was a really unruly, like, hallway of beds. And since I was suicidal, I couldn't keep the curtain closed around my bed. So it was just awful. Um, but eventually a spot opened up for me across the street at one of the oldest mental hospitals in the country. Uh, the Institute of Living, which is a beautiful campus of like, you know, grassy acres and oak trees and old buildings.

Um, obviously when you're in inpatient treatment, you don't really get to go outside. Um, so my first day there, I sat down with a bunch of psychiatrists and psychologists, and they told me that I was bipolar one, and they gave me lithium, which is a mood stabilizer, which has saved my life. Um, but you know, when you're in inpatient, you're, you don't go there to heal. You go there so that they can stabilize your condition so that you're not a threat to yourself or to anybody else.

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Tyler Kania: Um, and so I guess that means that the, the quality of life has to be really poor. I don't know. But it was because, you know, there was just nothing to do there. No group activities, no outside, like I said, the food was poor. You couldn't have your cell phone or shoe laces or a fork. Um, the books were bad. The only TV was controlled by a guy who spoke Spanish. Um, and so there'd be 30 people around the tv and only one guy was understanding it. Um, you know, there's schizophrenics. There's narcissists who are so unruly, you know, they needed to be tied to beds for medication. my roommate had aphasia and I actually got him to talk for the first time in several weeks. You know, aphasia is you, you, you, you can't talk 'cause of something, um, a stroke or a big head injury or trauma. and you know, he didn't talk a lot, but we formed a friendship and it can be a really lonely place. You know, no one really wants to talk there. They're too traumatized. But, know, that was really useful to me and it kind of opened my eyes of my blessings in life. Like, you know, a lot of these people were suffering a hell of a lot worse than me and. You know, they never really had opportunities to succeed in life.

You know, I'm from a wealthy, white, educated family, you know, I'm athletic and have wet, um, you know, a lot of these people have just always been ashamed of themselves. so I wanted to help, but I didn't really wanna know how. Um, I eventually moved to outpatient therapy, which was like Monday through Friday, nine to five.

Um, that was a really liberating experience, you know, getting to eat sugar again, getting to go outside, getting to drink coffee, having group therapy with people that were okay with talking,

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Tyler Kania: that were empathetic to your own struggles and saying, you know, some of those girls on that rugby team aren't gonna forget who you are. You know, and so that was a really special time for me. I was on anti-psychotics and so I was eating a ton, and we had 20 to $20 food vouchers at the cafeteria, which was just great. But, you know, from there I eventually got my life together. I got a job at the largest cybersecurity company in the world. Trained hard to get back on the rugby team, on the rugby field, know, by the spring of 2024, I was in the best shape of my life. I was doing things that I hadn't been doing in college or ever, you know, I was so excited about the season. And game, I ruptured my patella tendon again. The other one, um,

Rob Valincius: the same one.

Tyler Kania: no, the other one.

I, I

Rob Valincius: Oh.

Tyler Kania: my knees.

Rob Valincius: Uh.

Tyler Kania: Um,

Rob Valincius: Yeah, that's rough, dude. That's always my scare. Like anytime I go back and out and play, I, I tore mine playing basketball. Anytime I go out to play basketball, I'm always worried because, you know, you don't realize just how much. Well, for me, I also think I tore my hip, my, my hip, uh, my rotator cuff and my hip because my hip's, all my hip's all fucked.

Um, and it's on the same side that I tore my ACL. Um, so I'm always worried because of the, the compensation that at some point, you know, and, and I don't play hard like I did when I was, you know, 'cause I'll be 39 this year. I, I don't play hard like I did when I was, you know, 25, 26. But still, it's always in the back of your mind.

It just started running, you know? And in my head I'm like, fuck am I, am I just gonna take one weird step and you know, pop, that one's gonna pop. 'cause you never know. Right.

Tyler Kania: Yeah. I'm trying to focus on knee mobility. Um. 'cause you know, that it does connect to the knee or, or sorry, hip mobility.

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Tyler Kania: but back to the story. So I, I ruptured my patellar tendon and I went manic for the first time since I had been in, in, in Memphis before my institutionalization. Um, and so many times in my past, you know, mania really screwed things up, but it can offer superpowers.

Like, you know, for the first time in so long I was no longer ashamed of myself. And I just started opening up the notes app on my iPhone and publishing my life story to Instagram. Um, and I didn't sleep for three days and I had to be hospitalized for the mania. But when I got out, I had just like overwhelming support from my friends, like former rugby teammates, you know, all kinds of people that had no idea what I had been through. and so, you know, I kind of sat down and decided to write a, write a book.

Rob Valincius: That, I mean, that, that's ballsy, man. Um, you know, and, and I've, um, I've interviewed a lot of people at this point and, uh, you know, the people that write. About their trauma and their life tends to be the, the most, uh, impactful type of, uh, interviews they do, because you're putting your shit out there, man.

You know, there's no, uh, there's no sugarcoating, right? You're, you're writing your life. I mean, I've, I've interviewed a, a woman who was, you know, repeatedly, you know, beaten and raped by her husband, and she wrote a book about it. And, um, you know, the, the first thing I always ask people is, did you find it cathartic?

Putting everything down and, and, uh, throwing it out there for the world to, to read.

Tyler Kania: You know, I think that it's a lot harder to suffer in silence than it is to be authentic with yourself, and the first step is very difficult. You know, obviously I had help from mania, but I. Now that I've done it, I've felt liberated, I've felt heard for the first time in my life. I've felt like I can explain myself to all of those who have been confused about me, know?

And, and, and writing is like therapy. You know, therapy is nothing more than a mirror for your thoughts. that's what writing is. And I connect with bipolar people, people, people with mental illness, people, um, in the field of helping those kinds of people. And, you know, it's, it's impactful, right?

Like, you know, they, they really see me as a beacon of hope. And, you know, I do tell them that, you know, I'm not through a lifelong illness and I still suffer every single day. suicidal now, but I have suicidal thoughts every day there's a difference. But, you know, I'm for the most part stable now and. You know, I'm doing what I enjoy doing, and it doesn't matter about book sales. Those things are nice. You know, what matters is, you know, changing one person's life or saving one person's life, you know, because my life could have really gone a different direction. It, it could, could very well have been around right now.

But, you know, everything that I went through has made me into a better person and a person that is comfortable sharing my story and knows that the world needs to hear it.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. And, and, and it's also not just with the mental illness side, but it's also being a male, right? Because I think, um, you know, historically as males, a lot of the time it's just shut up, deal with it, be quiet about it. Um, so you also coming out and talking about your struggles, especially as like, you know, I think it is also there's that line where you're talking about like the jockey guy, right?

The, the guy that plays sports and is athletic, A lot of the times they're, they're the people that, you know, you're like, ah, come on man. What, what do you have that to be, to be worried about? But a lot of times with social media especially, you don't see. How, like the other side of things, like we're, you know, a lot of times you see the smiling and the fun and all that.

You don't see the other shit, which is 90% of a lot of these like influencers lives and they're miserable. Right? But they don't talk about that stuff. And I think that's why you see a lot of this stuff come to a head and people go crazy or, you know, whatever the case is. But I think it's also good. Have you heard from like guys saying thank you for, you know, talking about your story.

'cause it, you know, it's, it's gotta be a, it's a taboo situation with men.

Tyler Kania: Oh yeah, definitely. Um, you know, I hope that I've inspired someone else to write about their journey, um, because it, it, it really can make a difference. But, um, it, it definitely is difficult for men to come forward with that kind of thing to even seek help. And, you know, my book is basically about what not to do when you have a mental illness before finally doing what. To do with the

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Tyler Kania: You know, I basically was trying to escape my, demons in my mind by finding an adventure or fixating on wealth or rugby or something else, cryptocurrency. but in the end, you know, I was forced to get help and once I did it was kind of like, well, what took so long? You know,

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Um, you know, I, I always like to ask the wis what if, and I don't know if you're gonna have an answer for this, but, you know, uh, 'cause I, I always ask myself this, like, what if I didn't go out that day to play basketball and I had not torn my ACL? Would I have not, you know, what, what, what would my physicality look like?

'cause I was in good shape at that point in my life. Um, do you ever wonder like who you'd be if you never ruptured your patella tendon or you didn't have the bipolar disorder?

Tyler Kania: yeah. I try not to because it doesn't do you any good.

Rob Valincius: It's true.

Tyler Kania: um, you know, I had such high ambitions for rugby. You know, it was the first thing I had ever done where I just instantly, I touched a ball. I knew that I was great at it, you know, and having to deal with this twice, you know, it can leave me thinking, why me a lot. But, you know, at the end of the day, these things have brought me to who I am this present day, and, you know, I'm more mature than I should be at my age. I'm more resilient, you know, I'm more determined, you know, because of all those things. And so I'm really proud of the man that I've become, and. You know, I could play those games of like, like I do, you know, I'll see younger guys who, you know, make it to a high level that I played with.

And, you know, you, you always have that feeling of, of something that you, you lost because it wasn't your fault. But,

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Yeah. I mean.

Tyler Kania: you know, I'm still chasing the dream. You know, I work hard every day dreaming of being back on the rugby field. And, you know, the ship has most definitely, probably sailed by this point. But, you know, the pursuit of a dream is what makes us human and it's what makes us get better every single day, you know? And so even if you don't accomplish that dream, you know, you can sit back and say, I give it my best.

Rob Valincius: Well, um, Tyler, how old are you?

Tyler Kania: I turned 33 at the end of this month.

Rob Valincius: Ah, bro, you're, you're good. You

Tyler Kania: I.

Rob Valincius: talk to me when you're pushed. I'll be, I'm almost one year off of 40. All right. You, you're, you're good. You're good. I think, um, I deal with, um, a lot of seniors 'cause I, in, in my field I deal with a lot of, um, you know, Medicare recipients, right. So, um, and I think that, I think that age is a, is a construct that society has said, oh, well, if you're a certain age, you're old.

And I think that we need to, to break outta that because I gotta tell you, there's some 60 and 70 year olds that I know that I've met doing this, that they're in better shape than I am. You know, they, they do more exercise and more shit than I do. So, um, you know, I think that that's something as a society I think we need to get better with.

'cause people are living longer. They're living healthier. Um, you know, I think there's a, a lot of that now. So, to be honest, and I say this to my dad, my dad's, uh, 61, he'll be 62. And I say to him all the time, like, look dude. Yeah, like 75 is a new 65, you know, and we're only gonna continue to live longer because we're gonna get healthier, you know, and with surgeries and medications and, um, you know, educations, I think humans are just gonna constantly start to evolve and live longer lives.

So, you know, I think in the past, like especially as when, when I was a kid, right? You're in your thirties, that was old. Right. But I think like, you know, as you get into your thirties, you're, you're trying to talk to yourself, what am I old? You know, how do I feel? Uh, but I think, I think age is in the eye, the beholder with a lot of that stuff.

33, dude, you're young man.

Tyler Kania: Yeah,

Rob Valincius: I, I consider kids, kids. Anyone under thirties? A kid still in my, in my eyes that's, I don't know how you look at it, but I look at anyone under 30 as a kid. 'cause you still don't know what the fuck you're doing. I still don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm 38.

Tyler Kania: yeah. But when your rugby teammates were born in, like, I. 2000, 2007 or something,

Rob Valincius: Yeah, it's, yeah. Yeah. I, if I go out and play basketball, sometimes I'll get called an old head and I remember like calling people old heads and, uh, yeah, look, I get it, man. Uh, from a mental standpoint, it definitely sucks, but, um, you know, as long as you're like. You're doing your thing. I think I, you know, from a sports perspective, that's tough though.

Um, talk to me a little bit about like, what was like when you tore or you ruptured your patella attendant. Like what was that like? Because I know when I tore my ACL for one, I knew, I knew it right away. Like I just went to go cut. And dude, we were hooping man. We were playing, um, I was playing with some of my friends.

We were older, they were young kids. We were, we were fucking 'em up. We were playing good. I went to go fucking do a cut. That's all I did. Non-contact. Boom. Everybody heard my, my ACL snap. Everybody like, ooh, like one of those type things. And um, you know, I went to the hospital, they did the x-rays and stuff.

They didn't say anything was broken. And then when I went to the, obviously the, uh, orthopedic guy, whatever, they're like, yeah, you snapped your ACL. Now I, I repaired it. So I have a dead man's Achilles as my ACL. Um, but talk to me a little bit about what that was like. 'cause I know for me it was heartbreaking.

I was crying, uh, when I found out officially that it was tore.

Tyler Kania: Yeah. Um, well, a ruptured patellar tendon is visually traumatic, you know, like a compound fracture. When your hand leaves the skin, like your, your bones leave the skin, like, that's visually traumatic. Well, when you rupture your patellar tendon, your knee goes into your quad. so you definitely, your leg just dangles and you know that something's wrong.

And the first time it happened, you know, teammates suggested that it was um, dislocated, uh, dislocated knee, but. Um, I didn't want them to try and put it back in place. Um, you know, the second time it happened, I knew it instantly, obviously, because I had seen it before. And that was really heartbreaking because I had known what I came back from.

I had known that, you know, I came back from two suicide attempts. I came back from another rupture patella tendon. I beca came back from institutionalization, and I worked so hard. I was working out three times, you know, per day, you know, from November, 2023 to April, 2024. And, I had such high hopes for myself for the first time in so long. Um, you know, I, I posted on my Instagram, um, you know, the, the quote from when Kobe Bryant tore his Achilles and he's like. How am I supposed to come back from this? I'm 38, you know, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's, it's a really emotional, um, little essay that he wrote and, you know, I just identified with it so much. Um, but it was truly heartbreaking.

Rob Valincius: It's tough, dude. And you know, I, and I don't know about you, I mean, there's nothing wrong with me. I don't have a limp or anything, but I feel like you're never the same. Like I feel like a part of you, a part of you died when that happened. Like, and you know, maybe it's 2%, maybe it's 3%, maybe it's 5%, but like, I'm still like, I could still run.

Everything's fine, but you just never. You never feel the same. I don't know if you feel that that same way. Obviously you've done it twice, so it's a little different, but I just feel like you've ne like my knee has never felt the way it did before.

Tyler Kania: Yeah. Um, you know, I did come back from it and I. I felt like I was playing better than I had ever before. But there are apprehensions on the field into tackles and, and cutting in certain directions

Rob Valincius: Yeah,

Tyler Kania: you just have a second thought, like something can go wrong here. Like before that, it's just like ignorance.

Ignorance is bliss

Rob Valincius: yeah,

Tyler Kania: you're willing to throw your body around. But once it's happened, like I don't care who you are, there's a level of trepidation involved.

Rob Valincius: yeah. The mental side of it is, is that I wore a brace, like a professional brace on my, that I got fitted on my knee for probably two or three years.

Tyler Kania: yeah, I have two braces that I wear right now, but I'm still not back. Like I'm, it's been a, a year and one month already and it's still recovering, which sucks. Like it took a lot quicker last time. Um, but I'm doing all the right things, getting it strong.

Rob Valincius: How did they, uh, how did you have it repaired? So, I know, like, for instance, with my A CLI had two choices. It was they take part of my hamstring and fish it through or use just a dead person's thing. And my doctor told me, he is like, look, if we do the, you know, the, the, the recovery's longer if you use your hamstring, and then also if you, if that happens again, you can't do the hamstring again.

Like what, what do they do for the patella?

Tyler Kania: Yeah. So, um, it depends on how it's ruptured. You know, occasionally they do borrow from the ACL, but not with mine. It was a clean cut. so basically, you know, your patella tendon is held in place by these rubber bands, let's call them. And my rubber bands snapped, so they needed to drill three holes into my patella bone and weave the tendon back through.

Rob Valincius: Uh, it's, yeah, it's, that's, that's rough, man. Uh, listen, I, I don't, and, and I felt bad. I don't know if you, do you watch basketball?

Tyler Kania: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: Did you watch the, the Celtics game? Where Tatum fucking, ah, dude, you knew immediately. You knew immediately it was an Achilles. But it's always hard to see someone, I mean, put up 42 points.

It's always hard to see someone at the top level.

Tyler Kania: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: And you saw a lot of achi. There was a lot of Achilles tears in basketball this year. Um, and I don't know if there's some sort of, uh, reasoning behind that, but you have a lot of these explosive moves. The game's different. You know, I'm a big basketball fan.

The game's, uh, basketball is just a, is different now than it was before. It was a lot slower. Um, back in the day. So I think you saw more ACL tears 'cause you saw maybe more cutting. Now there's a lot more explosive place, right? There's a lot more people moving and, uh, you're just seeing those Achilles. But one thing I do know is I had a buddy tear his Achilles and they said, uh, with an Achilles tear, um, it's a lot different.

Um, because a lot of times your Achilles comes back stronger. It's like 110% because of the way that, you know, they repair it. So, I mean, it's, it's, I think it's a little different than knee injuries. You're never, I feel like they're never like, oh, your knee's gonna be better than it was before. You know, most of the time it's like, we hope that it's just as good.

Maybe a little bit less than it was before, you know? But doctors sugarcoat shit, so they're not gonna, they're not gonna fully tell you either. Um, now look, you've had a lot of shit kind of happen, right? You know, between, um, your crypto experiences. Um, you know, obviously I. Your your different manic episodes, um, you know, what made you keep going?

Like, I know you've had your, your suicidal attempts, your suicidal thoughts, things like that, but at the end of the day, it didn't happen. What, what kind of, what, what drove you to continue to just live and try to, to be better?

Tyler Kania: Um,

Rob Valincius: If you can answer. I know that that's not the, the easiest question. Um, you know, especially, you know, because you're still, obviously still kind of in the thick of it a little bit, right. To a certain degree.

Tyler Kania: yeah, no, I mean, I, some of it was guilt, like the first one. Um, you know, something, and some of it, some of it was luck, but, know, even on my darkest, most suicidal days, and I don't know if everybody has this same thought or if it's my own, like egotistical, slightly narcissistic, you know, brain. But even on my darkest days, I, I thought that there was a chance that I might change the world, you know? And I've always been competitive and I always just wanna prove myself. And I think, you know, I just had more fire in my belly. I wasn't ready.

Rob Valincius: It takes, it takes a lot, I think, to, to kill yourself, um, mentally. I know, um, you know, uh, my cousin Chuck ripped, Chuck, um, he hung himself like you almost did. And, uh, he had two little girls when he did it. And, uh. You know, I, I, I wanna say he was very high on, I don't know if it was meth or, I forget what it was, but, um, it's tough, especially when you have kids, you know?

And, uh, that was a shitty funeral too. That was, that was not fun, uh, to attend, uh, because he was young, you know, he was, I think he was his early thirties, you know, he was younger than you. Um, but I think, I think you don't realize just how much people care about you until, well, you're not around to see it, you know?

Um, it's, I, but it is a difficult thing, I think, to fully go through. I, I forget what the statistics are. I think it's like, um, you know, men do a lot of planning, but a lot of times we, we fall through, but women, once they're, they decide on it, they're more likely to follow through or some cr, I forget what the statistic is on that, but it's something pretty crazy.

It's like, you know, we.

Tyler Kania: men are 70, they, 75% of suicides and women are 25%.

Rob Valincius: Okay. So it's maybe it's, it's they, they plan it, but don't do it. And we don't plan it. We just do it. I forget, I, it's something like that. It's like where there's like a change in, um, thoughts on how it is. Um, you know, how do you think that the writing your memoir and publishing it, like, how do you feel like that, did that help heal you in a way?

Tyler Kania: Um, it brought me a community that doesn't think I'm Frankenstein. You know, like if you're struggling, like you, you just think other people think the worst of you.

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Tyler Kania: and you know, this has brought me a lot of confidence. You know, random, strange. I, I published a short story. I published the first draft of my to Instagram, and ever since then, I a short story or a essay every single day. And, um. The feedback I just get is incredible. You know, strangers will read 10 pages, you know, like, um, young Rugby guys a decade younger than me will, you know, pre-order my book. And, um, know, it's just been really good for my psyche and it's, made me wanna keep going and keep doing better and come up with new things to write.

And, um, you know, like I said before, community is so important when you're struggling. So, know, it's, it's brought me that, you know, part of it has been, you know, cathartic and, you know, it has taught me stuff about myself and stuff about, you know, what others might have been thinking in certain situations around me. Um, but you know, the whole thing has just been a blessing. I.

Rob Valincius: So, you know, what's, what's the most misunderstood part of living with a mental illness? You know, especially bipolar, bipolar's, very, uh, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't wanna say random, but it's very, um, sporadic, right? You don't really know what side, 'cause it's gonna be either severe depression or severe manic to a certain degree.

So, um, is there anything that's, that you want people to know, you know, that that's kind of misunderstood?

Tyler Kania: We have superpowers. Um, you know, it's no wonder why people like Winston Churchill, Vincent Van Gogh, Ernest Hemingway, Selena Gomez, you know, have bipolar. Um, we have heightened levels of creativity, curiosity, empathy, objectivity. you know, when we're manic, we're determined we're un aaba. You know, we have tons of energy. Um. You know, it's easy to look at the glass half empty, but, um, know, we have a lot to look forward to about ourselves and, you know, it's, it's best to avoid the kryptonite and just focus on what you're good at. You know, I'm creative and I'm curious, and that makes for a good writer. And so, I'm leaning into it.

Um, but so many people look at bipolar as just like this curse, this death sentence. And it can be. but it's so much more than that and it out some of the most unique individuals in the entire world.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I would agree. And I mean, um, I think that's life though, right? It's like, um, you know, uh, how you handle your situation. I think what makes us human is how you take your situation. Um, whether start to finish right. And who you come out on the other side, because we all have a choice. At the end of the day.

We all have free will if you Right. If you believe in that, some people don't. Uh, but if, if you believe in that, then you know, yeah. Everyone has shitty days. Everyone has shitty years, and some of us has longer than that and shit happens. Right? But that's, that's life. And I think what makes us human is who you come out on the other side and obviously for you, you had a lot of turmoil, you had a lot of shit happen to you, but you came out on the other side of, you know, and, and I like that you said, I'm better.

I'm not better. Right. You said I'm still working on it. And I think that that, um, that type of mentality, um, is good because you're always gonna be working on it. Um, and, uh, I think when you're, you know, you had talked about this, but when you're bipolar, it's not something that, that they cure. At least not yet.

Right? Um, you never know with, uh, Elon Musk and, and, and chips in your brain and stuff. Who knows? Maybe in the, in the next 10, 15 years, maybe, maybe we won't have the ability or we, we will have the ability to do that. Um, before we hang this up, um, you know, I do have a lot of younger guys that listen to this show.

Um, what would, what would you say to someone listening right now who feels like they're on the edge, whether that's mentally, emotionally, financially, you know, whatever. What, what would you say to them?

Tyler Kania: Um, well, you know, we're pretty social creatures. Um, it's really easy with an illness to disassociate yourself from the world, not talk to friends and family, not tell, tell them about your troubles or what you're going through. Um, but you know. For me, I couldn't do it myself, and most of us can't. And you know, it's a lot easier to have a team behind you that you care about, that cares about you. Um, it's important to find your community. It's important to find your goals in life. You know, stuff that gets you trying to get better each day. and it's, it's important for people that are truly suffering with a mental illness to find that medication that fits, you know? And that can be a tough, tough thing to attack 'cause it's difficult to diagnose psychiatric illnesses.

But, you know, I found it eventually and it did save my life. And, um, you know, I'm able to do stable enough things like write a book, um, because I finally asked for help.

Rob Valincius: I like that. I like that. Um, and let's end with this. What's next for you? Man, you, you know, you, you're working on something right now. You got another memoir? Uh, and then tell us where, uh, everybody can find your content, your book, all that jazz.

Tyler Kania: Yeah, sure. Um, I

Rob Valincius: Plug away.

Tyler Kania: huh?

Rob Valincius: Plug away, man.

Tyler Kania: Yeah, yeah. I, I mentioned that I, uh, wrote some short stories on my Instagram while I've actually wrote in over 200 of them, 99 of which are going into a second book called 99 Stories in a Broken Pen. Um, you know, I think that my writing has continued to develop quite a bit since my first book, and, you know, it covers a range of topics, you know, addiction, overdoses, but also sports friends. funny stories, you know, some really funny stories. and so I'm editing that now. You know, I'm always looking for the next good story to kind of plug, plug in there. Um, but it should be available sometime in the fall. and then besides that, know, I, uh, I write extended obituaries for people, basically like short 12 page books about the lives of, uh, a deceased loved ones for families and friends to, um, you know, preserve their memories and legacy. I work with funeral homes to try and find families, but, um, if you're interested in seeing my short stories, like I said, I post one a day on Instagram. My handle is at Tyler Kenya. Um, and if you liked what you heard about my story today, um, you can buy my book, the Maniac with No Knees on Amazon. I.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I, I just followed you on, uh, Instagram and it's the maniac with no knees. Let's see. Let's see what You're All right, man. Uh, and you do have an audible version.

Tyler Kania: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: All right, well, I'll tell you what, dude, because I always support everyone. I just bought your book on Amazon

Tyler Kania: Appreciate

Rob Valincius: uh, yeah, man, I believe in what you're doing.

Keep spreading the good word. Um, I appreciate, you know, you coming on being your authentic self. I think it's important, uh, especially if you're listening to this. If you have a mental illness, uh, you're struggling, uh, whether you're male, female, they, them, whatever. Right? Um, ask for help. I think it's important.

Um, you know, if you have a significant other, talk to 'em about this. You know, if, uh, if I didn't have my wifey, um, I'd probably not be where I am today. You know, she's, she's a great person. I can, um, pitch things to and, and talk about how I'm feeling. And a lot of times you could be your, your authentic self with the person you're spending the rest of your life with, right, too.

I think that's important. So, uh, my podcast is drink clock Pod on all socials, drink clock podcasts, anywhere you listen to podcasts and, um, you know, Hey, man, it was, it was awesome. Have you on Tyler, let's do this again. Uh, maybe after your next, your next book, dude.

Tyler Kania: Yeah, that sounds great.

Rob Valincius: Okay. Awesome man. Thank you very much. You have a great night.

Tyler Kania: You too. Bye.

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