One Less Beer, Better Strokes on the Putt

What if putting was just math? In this episode, I sit down with Bob Labbe, author of Putting by the Numbers: A Quantitative Method of Lag Putting, to break down why lag putting is the most overlooked skill in golf and how a simple physics-based method can shave strokes off your game.

Bob shares his journey from starting golf at 52 years old to shooting par at 82, how he built and sold three air pollution control companies before turning his engineering brain loose on the putting green, and why putting accounts for up to 50% of your score yet almost nobody practices it that way.

Whether you're a seasoned golfer or you've never left Top Golf, this one's packed with insights on distance control, individual power factor, and why one less beer might mean better strokes on the putt.

Learn more: boblabbe.com | puttingbythenumbers.com 

Grab the book on Amazon, available in audiobook, ebook, softcover, and hardcover.

Want to be a guest on Drink O’Clock? Send us a message on PodMatch here:
 podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/drinkoclock

Transcript

Intro Song

Rob Valincius: We are live. I'm alive. Bob, you're alive. It's a gr it's a beautiful day when you can get up, breathe, walk around and enjoy life. You know what I'm saying? That's, that's what type of mood I'm in today. Uh, this is The Drink o'clock podcast. I am your host, Rob Valincius, and I have the pleasure of having with me Bob Labbe.

Now Bob, you're the author of Putting by the, putting by the Numbers a quantitative method of Lag, putting. Welcome to the show, man.

Bob Labbe: Well, thanks for having me. I look forward to our discussion.

Rob Valincius: Now, I will tell you this, all the guys in my office love golf. Okay. I suck. I am not good. However. I never, I have never applied myself to learn golf. So I've never, outside of doing top golf, which I know doesn't count, um, I've never gone to a green, like a real green and tried or learned to do it. So I, it's the same thing, right?

It's like, you know, I, I don't know how to play the banjo, so if I picked one up, of course I'm not gonna be able to play it. 'cause I never practiced or I never learned, right? So, um, but I would not be picked to be on anyone's team of any kind if we, if we were going, you know, partners, you know.

Bob Labbe: I understand. So uninspired term

Rob Valincius: talk to me a little bit about growing up, right? Let's, before we get into like the nitty gritty. You know, talk to me about, you know, uh, if you're comfortable talking about like, you know, what area you grew up grew up in, um, you know, what really kind of fueled your story and really, you know, the, the whole, um, sport of golf, man.

I know that sometimes, uh, that type of thing hits you early on and you really, I know golf is a very skilled game. You know, it's, um, a game of inches, right? Just like, I guess football in a lot of aspects. It's a game of inches. So.

Bob Labbe: Sure, sure. Well, it's kinda interesting. I've had a pretty, um, pretty exciting life, I think. Uh, I started my life out in Akron, Ohio and lived there for 10 years before my dad, who was a lieutenant in the fire department, he, he got Bill's palsy in his face and he had to move to either Arizona or South Florida to by, for the climate to help him get over the illness. And because my, his sister was, uh, station her, her son was stationed at Key Western World War ii. We, of course, chose to go to Miami. And so I lived in Miami for 10 years before I went to Georgia Tech in 19 62, 63. Then I spent 42 years in Atlanta, uh, two and a half years in Louisville, and I've been living, living in the suburb of St.

Louis for 20 years. So that covers the 82 years of my life. Okay.

And during all. During all that time, I've, I've owned, I, I've started, developed and sold three air pollution control companies from 1972 to 2023, and I'm fully retired except for my book and my customer, which are hobbies for me now. And that kinda rounds out.

Uh, I'm a, I I've always been a pretty busy guy and I, I like to stay a little bit busy, even in retirement, just to keep my head right, you know, and it, and talking to people and going on these podcasts and having interaction with interviewers and professional people like you is kind of exciting for me. And I'm doing a, I'm doing about 10 podcasts a month now, five for my book and, and five for my Coaster project. And it's a lot of fun because I get a lot of questions asked. It keeps my mind sharp. And, uh, that's a, that's a lot of fun. And, and golf has been a passion my whole life, even though I didn't start playing until I was 52 years old.

In a real sense. In a real sense. Just like, just like you say, you've, you've, you've done a few things at Top Golf and you, you put it around maybe a little bit. I didn't take the game up until I, seriously, until I was 52 years old. Although I loved the game my whole life. I didn't have time. I didn't think I had time to play the game because I was busy in my business.

But that was a wrong idea because golf was a great game to play. When you have a business, you, you meet a lot of great people. I've made a lot of, since I've been playing golf in my third company, I made a number of business deals on the golf course. So it's a great place to play golf. It's a great place to do business. And so I would recommend a young, young fellow getting into business, Hey, learn. Go. Go to a PGA school. Take four or five days, a group lessons a go out and practice three days a week and, uh, become good at the game. And then you, you're gonna, you're gonna learn to meet a lot of nice people all through, and it's going to enhance your career regardless of what field you're in.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. And hey, if you're good at it,

Bob Labbe: cool.

Yeah. Oh yeah. money, man. Um, you know, and, and, and to top it off, you're not busting your ass, you know, like you would playing football or, um, you know, there's, it's a shame. I, I'm a big sports guy. I love sports. It's, it's been a big part of my life. Uh, football, basketball, uh, my, my, my main two.

Rob Valincius: Uh, sports, but I was watching and I don't know, you know, uh, how much you follow. I don't follow college sports much. Uh, but I watched a brutal injury. Uh, it was kind of, I don't know if it went viral, but, uh, guy was playing, he's college baseball athlete, crushed a home run, just crushed it. And as he's running to second base,

Bob Labbe: I just wanted

Rob Valincius: he was celebrating and he just snapped his, his leg when he was jumping in the air.

And it's like, and it, you, you see stuff like that and you're just like, well, one, I mean, I don't know how many times I've seen someone celebrate and then they hurt themselves, which is crazy. Uh, but you, you, you just derailed your career, you know,

Bob Labbe: like

Rob Valincius: of if you plan to go further. I mean, that's tough.

That's a tough way to, to hurt yourself. And you're not doing that in, in golf. You know, you might maybe a roll an ankle, uh. You have maybe couple, one too many drinks on a Saturday morning and you shoot under par, right? I mean, a little bit of a different, uh, atmosphere and um, you know, I think, I think that that's cool.

It is something, um, kinda like pickleball, right? As you get older, it's something you can play. Um, you move around. I work in the senior market. I, I deal with, you know, seniors all the time. And, you know, whether you're talking about someone that's 65 fresh or someone that's 89 that's still, you know, get going into marathons and, and you know, like, you'd be surprised, uh, how many seniors just embrace that, the retirement lifestyle and they stay active.

And it, it's important, um, to do what you're doing because I think the moment you, you don't have a hobby, you don't have something to do and, and your, you, you kind, your brain kind of rots, you know, you need that stimulation.

Bob Labbe: Can't agree more. That's exactly true.

Rob Valincius: I, I've seen many, many seniors, unfortunately, they just, they'll just sit and watch TV and then before you know it, you know, they're sick. Right? And your, your body responds to that. And I think, I think it's, it's good what you're doing and it's good to, to also get out there, man. Play a little pickleball, play a little golf, you know, um, human interaction's really important as you get older.

It's just so important, um, for everything, you know.

Bob Labbe: it is. Yeah. Well, I was playing wife, uh, playing golf with my wife yesterday

and, uh, I, I had a, I had a, a 55 foot putt, uh, off the green. Uh, the putt was 25 feet off the green and 30 foot on the green, and it was on a par five. And I made the putt for an eagle. So that was a pretty exciting, exciting moment for me.

And yet at this age, to, to make, I don't make many eagles these days, but every once in a while, you know, the, the blinds and the, the blind squirrel catches the nut, you know?

Rob Valincius: However, it's a positive and a negative 'cause you did it against your wife. So positive, negative there. Right? Exciting. Until you see the face and you're like, ah, was it an eagle? I forget. You know? so, you know, um, you know, you talked about being an entrepreneur. I think an entrepreneur spirit is, it's something you can't get outta people, right?

I just feel like, um, once you're an entrepreneur or, or once you have an idea, it's really hard to not jump into that. Um, talk to me a little bit about, you know, you got into golf late. What made you start to think about maybe, maybe I should put a book together? Like what, what was that, what was that like for you?

Thinking maybe I have a good idea here.

Bob Labbe: Well, as I said, I started playing the game of golf in 1996. I had just retired from my second air pollution control company that I sold, and my partner and I, who he was, he wanted to play golf as well. And uh, so we agreed that when we retired that we'd go take some lessons and then we'd go play golf together.

So we joined a country club and we set off, I went to Maggie Valley, North Carolina, went to the PGA school up there for four days and learned all the strokes of the game, including putting, and, uh, came back and started. I was practicing three days a week for two or three hours, and I was playing the game three days a week, and 18 holes for three days a week.

So. I got pretty good at the game pretty quickly within a year. I was, um, you know, I, I look at the scorecard. Um, if you're, if you're playing Par golf on a 72 hole round course, you have 44 strokes that are other than putts. And the other, uh, strokes are 28 putts. That's what the professionals on the tour try to achieve is 28 putts is their goal. Many times they do a lot better, and a few times they don't do quite as good, but that's the objective to try to achieve. So anyway, here I was, uh, a new golfer a year into the game, and I was hitting around 50 strokes on the, on the doggone, uh, course outside the greens, but on the greens. I was hitting between 40 and 40 p four putts around, which was causing me to score 90, 90 to 94, sometimes 96, 97.

It was killing my game.

So my long you, before you get into this, explain to me, um, 'cause I, I hear people saying it right? Like, two under and explain. What's a good score for just an average golfer, not a pro guy, like just an average Right. Well, I, I think most, most amateur golfers that play golf regularly, okay. If they're scoring between 85 and 95 strokes around, that's pretty typical. And around, uh, being a bogey golfer or shooting a score of around 90 is pretty typical for the avid amateur golfer.

But there most golfers that play recreationally. shooting over a hundred and, you know, and that could be as, you know, it depends on what book you read, but there's more than if you, everybody counts their score properly follows the PGA rules. I would say 40% of the golfers that go off on golf course, that shoot over a hundred if they score properly.

Okay. Which we know people probably aren't, not everyone's Yeah. I, I think, I think people take advantage of the rules and, you know, hey, uh, you know, they're out there have wanting to have fun. They're not like the, the 150 guys on the PGA tour that are trying to make big money and, and they're, those guys are quantum leaps above us. Average amateur golfers, you know, they're, they think in a different world than we do.

Rob Valincius: So what, what is a pro guy then tend to shoot? Like what's, what's a good score for somebody that's a pro?

Bob Labbe: you know, pros, pros that are playing a good game of golf are always trying to shoot four or five under 72, which is the typical par for an 18 hole course. They're always trying to shoot like 67, 68

in a four in, in a four round tournament. On the weekends. They're, they're trying to shoot 16 to 20 under for the weekend, you know,

and, uh, and that's, that's fabulous.

That, that's, that's out of my league. My, my handicap, my handicap's a seven up, and their handicaps are like a plus five. I'm a, I'm a minus seven. They're a plus five on, on average on the tour because they're so, so good.

Rob Valincius: What, what, what's the, before you get into it, what's, what's your best game ever?

Bob Labbe: Well, my best game ever is I shot a 72

par on the Baldwin golf course, uh, last, uh, in July of 14th of 2025.

Rob Valincius: You see how he remembered that to the day? You probably even remembered the time too, right?

Bob Labbe: I do, I I do, I, uh, I wrote it down. I have it in my, I have it in my file because shooting a par for me was truly a life, life event.

Okay. You, you had to be, uh, what do they call that? Um, it's, uh, the flow state. You, you get into a flow state and you're just hitting everything, right?

yeah. Oh, I, I, I could do no wrong. That particular day when I was playing, I, uh, I got, had some luck along the way too. You know, I, I hit a sprinkler head. Before the green. Before the green. And it jumped up and it went two feet from the hole and let me make a birdie, which I shouldn't have made, but it made, that helped my score, you know,

so I had, you gotta have a little luck in this game too, you know?

Rob Valincius: That's true. That's true. So, sorry, I, I just figure, you know, I probably have a lot of listeners that maybe don't know because I honestly, I don't know, I know enough to be dangerous, but I don't, it's just to say that we were watching NASCAR this weekend mainly 'cause I was put, I was betting a little bit on it and, uh, you know, it's long story there.

I, but, uh, I didn't know any of the rules. Like I'm Googling, you know, why is there multiple stages and you know, it's like the same kind thing for me. It's why I wanted to, to get you on the show because, um, you know, golf is something, I'm sure at some point in my life I'll probably play as I get older. Um, but I'm right.

I don't know enough to be, uh, you know, I couldn't have a full on conversation about it. Like, I'm sure you could, but go on. So, um, you know, you, you got lessons, uh, and I think that's where, right, where you were at after you sold your company.

Bob Labbe: Yeah, I, I, I, I got, went to Maggie Valley, North Carolina, went to the PGA school there, took four days of group lessons and played, played around with the pro. And, uh, I learned this. They did a fabulous job. And I would recommend to anybody that's picking up the game of golf, please go to a PGA school, whether they're single lessons or group lessons, take four or five days of lessons and learn how each club is supposed to be used, and then practice that.

Because once you know the purpose of each club and how to use it for various shots, then it's all about practice, practice, practice. And that's, that's the, that's the key to golf is in my mind, golf is the hardest game on the planet. There's no more difficult game. And I think you'll notice that with some of the, the great baseball players like, uh, uh, what's it, VIN from the Braves and, uh, John Smoltz from the Braves that were great picture pitchers back in the nineties. They've come out and they've become very good golfers. Both of 'em are scratch golfers now, but it took 'em a time to get there

because golf, golf is a very difficult game. And, uh, you're fighting everything is against you, the course, and you, it's nobody else's on your team. It's a mind game between you, the ball and the course. And, uh, sometimes when you, when you've got some hard, hard shots to make the course wins.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. And what plus too, you know, there's a lot of factors too, right? Wind and angle and, you know, you have your sand traps. I mean, there's a, there's gotta be, you almost gotta be kind of a mathematician, uh, geometry, right? But to figure out what you're doing and, and it, I mean, other than like putting your finger up to see where the wind is going, it's, it, I'm sure it's gotta be a little tough to, to kind of dictate that.

I mean, with technology it's probably a little bit different. I, I saw, um, there is AI glasses that you can get now that, um, will show you the trajectory of the ball if you hit it a specific way. And it's all just ar um, you know, augmented reality, which is pretty cool. Um, but I think technology as we go will also kind of, um, be very intrusive with stuff like that.

Bob Labbe: Oh yeah. Well, let me say this. The, the technology that they've come, come around with, with the development with golf clubs is incredible. You know, I could tell you, I, I was hitting, I had my ping zing irons that I, uh, I was hitting my seven iron, for example. A hundred and twenty five hundred thirty yards.

And I just bought, my wife insisted I go out and buy a new set of clubs back in Christmas of 2023. And I said, honey, it's not about the, it is not about the clubs, it's about the club E. And she said, no, no, no, it's the tech. The technology has changed dramatically and you need to get some new technology. So I took her advice. I went up, I bought a new set of clubs and today that same seven iron with my new set of clubs, I'm hitting 150 yards instead of 125 to 130. And that's true of every club in my bag. So at a guy at my age, I can hit the ball just about as far as I did when I was 50 years old because of new technology.

Rob Valincius: Wow. That's, that's pretty wild because, um, I know that there's some places around me, so I'm from Philadelphia. I know there's some places around me that, uh, they do custom clubs for you. I guess they measure, you know, your, your size and, and all that stuff. And they'll, they'll make custom clubs. I'm sure it's not cheap.

Um, but what's like a standard club? Is it, is it, you know, um, I just iron mixed with, so like, what, what's a standard club made out of or did they change it?

Bob Labbe: well, my club's, uh, shafts are made outta graphite. Okay.

And, and, uh, that's my woods shafts are made outta graphite. My, my iron shafts are made outta stainless steel. Okay. And they're, and I have regular flex clubs. You can get, uh, rigid flex clubs. You can get, uh, easy flex clubs and you can get standard re regular flex like mine. It depends on your, your swing speed. You know, my swing speed, for instance, on my, uh, on my drivers, like. 98 miles an hour. Uh, at, at best. That's my best one. The guys on the pro tour swing speed can be anywhere from 120 miles to 170 miles an hour.

That's how superior they are too. So the average, the average amateur that plays golf, I would say their average swing speed is probably no greater than a hundred miles per hour. That's the average and most people down 80, 85, 90 miles an hour. And so that's kind of the, that's kind of the way it goes. And the, your swing speed has a lot to do with. How you're fitted for your clubs, you know, and a really good set of clubs these days with using all the technology that gives you, um, let's say four woods and all the irons and a putter with a nice bag and all, you're talking about 3,500 bucks.

Okay. To, to buy the whole set and have something that you go out in the course and knowing you got the best technology you need to play.

And, and, and so that, that's how, that's what I would recommend if you were, uh, wanted to become a serious amateur golfer. Get the lessons, get a great set of clubs and practice, practice, practice. Gotta practice at least three days a week. 'cause if you don't, you won't get any better.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, it's all about repetition, you know? Exactly. and I, and I mean, you know, that's quite an investment, but at the same time, they probably last forever. You know? I mean, it takes, you know, a lot for them. Like if you look at it, if they last you 10 years. Right. Um, and we'll say that's probably on the low side.

I'm sure there's people that have had a bag of clubs for 30 years or whatever. Well, I had my ping zings for 20 years.

Bob Labbe: Loved go. So I, now I'm a math guy, which I don't know where the hell, okay. I don't, uh, I don't have my phone, which is weird. But, uh, let's see. So. Your yours are, you had 'em for 20 years. So if we just said the average of 3,500 divided, buy 20, it's 175 bucks a year.

Rob Valincius: I mean, you buy dumb shit for 175 bucks, I'm sure within a year, you know?

Bob Labbe: exactly. It's a, it's an investment that's well worth it because it will, these clubs today help you avoid errors. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're user friendly, okay? They, they won't let you hit too many shanks. They won't let you hit too many, too many hooks or, or too many, too many, uh, draws or anything like that.

They're, they're, they, uh, the, the faces on these clubs and, and the, the, the, the sweet spot on each club is bigger and better than I've ever seen it in my life. It's, it's amazing what the technology is today with these clubs. And, and yet, and you can see it in the touring pros with the low scores, you know, when you're seeing them shoot 62, 61, I mean, shooting 10 or 11 strokes below par is fantastic on a 18 hole golf course.

And they, these, uh, touring pros do that with regularity these days.

Rob Valincius: Wow. That's crazy. Um, hey, could you do me a quick favor? Do you have a background noise? It's almost sounds like a tv. Are you able to turn that down a little bit?

Bob Labbe: Yeah, let me, let me do that. Uh, I'm sorry. I thought

I had my ear, I had my earbuds in and I thought they were going, uh,

not canceling.

Yeah. Noise. He is canceling. That's right. Let me, uh,

let me Adjust. that. Hold on just a moment. Yeah. Take your time. Thank you.

That's you. Turn my TV down and go as possible. Pick it up. Okay. Yeah, my, my wife's turning it down a bit. How about that, Ken? Is that better?

Rob Valincius: Much better.

Bob Labbe: Much better.

Okay, great. Yeah. It's, it's very, very slight's. Uh, much better. Much better. Um, so, uh, you know what though? I still, it's still kind of there. Um,

I'll tell you what, let me do this. Let, let me move my setup and it will take me but a second and we'll be back in business here.

Rob Valincius: perfect. Gotta love the, the, the mobile stuff, right.

Bob Labbe: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, uh, my daughter was looking at these Airbus I had because, uh, I was getting, I was able to get 'em where, uh, they were keeping all the background noise and you couldn't hear it, you know, and only recently have had, I've had problems with getting the background ground noise, uh, uh, on my earbuds.

So I've gotta take, have, take a look at 'em. I don't know what's wrong with them right now.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. You know, look, with technology, it's a blessing and a curse, right? Um, it does a lot of amazing things when it works. And then, uh, look, I, my degree's in it, I, I don't do that, but I'm one of those people where I'm always constantly, like the way my brain works, um, is if something doesn't work, for instance, uh, I'll give you for instance.

So, um, I do a podcast at work, uh, with my boss, and, uh, our audio has been off, and I, I had no idea why I was off. Um, and so I left work yesterday and it bothered me all day. I'm home and I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, why wasn't it working? Um, so, you know, I think, um, you know, and we'll, we'll tie this back into to golf, right?

Because when you, you know, I'm sure there's been times where you go on to a par. You, you, you know, you're, you're getting ready to hit and, uh, you. You think about it, you make the, the put or you hit and it just doesn't work out. And you're like, you know, what had I done this differently? Um, but then you, when you come back, maybe you come back a week later, a month later, and you do that or you try something different, it works.

That's kind of how I operate. So when I left, it bothered me, but when I came in with fresh eyes this morning, I spent, I was in there for five minutes. I looked, the mic was turned, someone hit when they had installed it, turned it in turn, installed it backwards. And, I didn't notice it yesterday. I am like, why is it off?

This one's fine, but this one isn't. Um, so that, that was one step. And then, you know, I played with the, some of the other audio stuff, but I just needed fresh eyes and a new perspective. Right. And, uh, that's the beauty of sports. You know, I think sometimes if you, if you do have that in sports, it helps.

Bob Labbe: Sure. Absolutely.

Rob Valincius: Uh, but that's technology, right? Uh, let, let's get back into it. So, you know, talk to me a little bit about, you know, um, why do you think so many golfers struggle with LAG PUD and what, and, and maybe define what LAG PUD is for us as well.

Bob Labbe: Okay, well, lag putting is, is anytime you have a long putt, and when I say a long putt, I think anything over 10 feet could be classified a long putt. Okay?

Uh, and so whether the, the ball is on the green itself, on the fringe or apron as it's called on the fairway next to the green, or even in the first cut of rough next to the green. Those are all very putable walls. As long as there's no obstruction between your ball and the hole.

So in, in my idea of putting by the numbers, the quantitative method of lag, putting, I believe a ball can be putted, provided there's no obstruction from distances as far as 25 yards away from the green. Particularly if you're not very good with your, uh, lob wedge or sandwich, we, or your pitching wedge. If you're having trouble with those clubs, pitching or chipping the putter is always a better solution. Okay. Particularly if you adopt the quantitative method of lag putting that I've developed over the years because it gives you a, it gives you a quantitative method of determining of how hard to hit that ball from various distance, whether you're 25 or 75 feet from the hole, whether you're on the green or off the green. Uh, the formulation of putting this quantitative method together for striking the ball is all based on force and friction. It's all about physics. It's all about engineering mechanics. And then you have to just, uh, take the, I take read my a d twos page book. You don't even have to do that. You look at my videos that are on my website, bob lobby.com or putting by the numbers.com, you can see my 11 minute practice video in home. You can see my 23 minute practice video on the golf course. You can see exactly, I tell you on those videos exactly what I'm doing. Now, if you think that's pretty cool and you'd like to learn about it, then you, you gotta pay five or 10 bucks to get my book because all the details are in my book. Okay. And so then I tell you, I tell everybody that if you buy my book, you like the idea, then you gotta practice a method, 30 minutes a day, three days a week for six weeks. And if you do that, you'll know at the end of the six weeks if that method that I have described to you and what you've been practicing is something that you'll use on the golf course.

And I have many, many friends, uh, competitors and everything that have adopted my method because I don't know if you know Bryson de Shambo on the PJ tour.

Rob Valincius: I, I, yeah, I've heard of him. Yep.

Bob Labbe: He's a very quantitative physics oriented guy. And although I, I, he may have read my book, I don't know, but we, we think on a similar plane about the quantitative nature, nature of force and friction. And so, um, yeah, I think that, uh, uh, we think on the same plane. And so what's really nice about my, my method of putting it's accurate, it's repeatable, and you can use it on any golf course anywhere in the world. Okay? And you can play any course on anywhere in the world as if it was your home course. If you go there 30 minutes early and practice on their practice green, you'll know exactly how to hit the ball when you get on the course.

Rob Valincius: Wow. Okay, so, so putting by the numbers, you're just basically. You are just, you're just talking almost physics, right? It's, it's very simple. And if you understand, if you understand the numbers, then you understand the put, which I mean, hey, look, I'm a numbers guy. Uh, I feel like I, you know, you saw me, I brought up the calculator.

'cause I feel like for me, I have to see the numbers, um, in order to really kind of, uh, understand what I'm trying to put together. And I, I actually just, uh, I just bought your audio book.

Bob Labbe: Oh, did you?

I bought it. Um, you know, I always try to support the people that are on my show. So, um, you got, you got a book sale outta me, you.

Well, I'll tell you, Steve Algi, who's my narrator on that book, he, he, he's a, an actor narrator guy. He's really good. So you'll, you'll enjoy listening to his voice. He's got a, he's got a very, very good voice. He's got a good, a good teaching voice, so I think he'll enjoy the book.

Rob Valincius: I love, uh, yeah, I love audio books. Uh, I drive a lot like, you know, for work, you know, it's 45 minutes to an hour there, 45 minutes to an hour home. So I have all this idle time and I'd rather listen to a book. And whether that's fiction, nonfiction, um, you know, as I age, I, I don't know if it's just a thing with, with us men, but you get into history.

So I'm, you know, listening to history books and, um, you know, I appreciate some of those things more. So I always try to, you know, the wifey doesn't think audio books are books. I, I, I beg to differ, but it helps me not get road rage because, Yeah, the Jersey drivers are the worst here, man. I don't, I dunno if you've, you've driven into the Northeast, but Oh, I, I definitely have, yeah. I spent, I spent many years around the Philadelphia area, did some steel mills over in coast, Phil, pa, and,

Bob Labbe: uh, yeah, I, I've been up in your neck of the woods quite a bit, doing a lot of industrial work,

Rob Valincius: Yeah, because you're right out of Ohio, so you're you're right there, man. We're, uh, we're a hop skipping a beat Right, right from you. So, I think 50% of all my work in the air pollution area was between Ohio and Pennsylvania.

wow. Okay. A lot of steel mills. A lot of steel mills.

yeah. I mean, look, all I gotta say is I'm sure you enjoyed much more, uh, enjoyed your time in, in a place like Miami compared to, uh, the Northeast here, uh, where the, the weather's awful, man. I hate it. Um, I gotta tell you, and I live in the suburbs of Philly, so it's not, um, it's not the city.

It's, you know, the northeast. So, I mean, we had that snowstorm, it was, what, three weeks ago? And my, my street is just now getting back to being a two-way street. It's you. becoming a two-way street again. And it's gonna snow now on Sunday. So. Can't, can't wait. Um, what, so talk to me a little bit about lag putting.

Why do you think, um, like what do you think amateurs misunderstand about the distance control when, when you get on the green right.

Bob Labbe: Well, you know, uh, there's a lot of variables that go on. Um. On a, on a potential golf course on a given day from, you know, you get there early in the morning, there's dew on the golf course, and they're, of course they're trying to vacuum the dew off of the greens before you get there, but they don't always get it done.

And then the hot sun comes out and it dries the greens up and it changes, it changes the speed of the greens. And so consequently, uh, during the course of an 18 hole round, the speed of the greens can change dramatically. And so the other thing that, uh, a lot of people, uh, there are just beginning the game, you know, putting, if you take a 72 par 18 hole golf course and you put two putts per. Green or 18 holes, that's 36 strokes. Well, there's 36 additional strokes that you take with the other 13 clubs in your bag, okay? And so that, that tells you that putting could be as much as 50% of the game.

Rob Valincius: Wow.

Bob Labbe: And I, and I say to myself, have you ever seen anybody practice putting 50% of the time? And the answer to that question is no, because everybody likes to hit the driver and see how far they can hit it.

And

you hit, and it is fun hitting all the other clubs, but those other 13 clubs that are in the bag only represent 50% of the game. And that putter by itself represents as much as 50% of the game. So one should pay more attention. If you wanna be a good golfer, you must be a good putter. And if you're not a good putter, I can assure you you'll not be a good golfer, okay?

Whereas you can, you can get by with not being the best with the other 13 clubs. And if you're an outstanding putter putting 28 putts per round like the pros or better, you can be an outstanding golfer, and that's what makes the difference.

Rob Valincius: That's interesting. I never really thought about that. So if you, if you really look at it with your clubs, right, that one club, if it's 50% of a standard 18 hole course, why wouldn't you practice more with it? Right?

Bob Labbe: you, you certainly should. And, and of course the, the idea of, and the reason I wrote this book and invented the method was because I was a very poor, long distance putter. Okay? When I started the game in 96, the putting was killing my score. I was, uh, I was using 40 to 44 putts around in a, in a 72 hole course, and I was maybe getting 50 to 55 strokes. So I was shooting in the nineties when I should have been shooting in the high eighties. And so I said to myself, man, you've gotta become a better putter. And then the engineer, the engineer broke out in me and I said, okay, the gay, the, the. Execution of a putt is a force friction action. Okay? We can divine, we can define the force by how hard we hit the ball with the putter. We can define the friction by the friction of the grass on the green, the fringe, the fairway, and the first cutter off. They're all different frictions, but we also need to be able to, everybody has their own individual power factor,

and that's, that's the rocking of your shoulders like this when you, when you move the putter back and forth and through your ball. So now, if you got that rocking and you've got your own individ, you define your own individual power factor, then we have to say, well, how far do we retract the putter for a given? Distance putt. Well, we do that by being able to visualize the ruler up from one inch to 12 inches and be able to study that by, and you read that in my book, how, how you do that and you become a vi be able to visualize a three inch retraction, a six inch retraction. And then when you realize that your individual power factor on a, on a course for the day is 12 feet of travel for one inch of retraction, and then you have a 60 foot putt, you know, you retract your, your putter five inches and then you stroke through the ball and I'll guarantee your ball end up within three to five foot of that hole and you'll make your two putt virtually every time.

Rob Valincius: Interesting. Yeah. And that's gotta be weird. So have you found that, that this method that you created, have you found it a little difficult to explain to someone that maybe is an experienced golfer? Because I feel like a lot of, a lot of golfers probably have to think that it's purely instinctive. Um, Yeah. Well, right?

Bob Labbe: most of, most of the pros, because they're such great athletes. Our field touch type of putters. You know,

they, they got that natural athletic ability, they got the feel, they got the touch, and they are very, very good. But that's only 150 people out of the 30 million people that play golf in the United States, the 300 million people that play golf around the world and the a hundred million miniature golfers around the world.

So we got

150 people that are truly unique. But the rest of us, we have to, we have to have a methodology that we can rely on and count on to create good scores. And I think because my method is. Repeatable. It's accurate and it can work on any course you play because all you gotta do is go to the green there, 30 minutes before your round, see what the speeds of the green are, and the fringe and the fairway, and that first cutter off.

Then you write it on your scorecard. You take it to the course, and then when you have a compound putt, you add up the numbers, and if you do a little arithmetic in your head, you'll know exactly how far to retract that putter and how hard hit the ball

Rob Valincius: I mean that makes sense. It makes sense to me. Right? I mean, any physics class you take, you know, um, you get energy out of what you put out, the power you put into it, right. An object moves because when you put energy into it, and if you have the amount of energy, I think like you said, that, you know, the only elements that could change it might be how slick is the grass, right?

Is the due there is what's the weather like, what's the wind like? I mean, those factors, you can't really help. But I'm sure if you put some numbers on it, you, you know, you also probably get a good guess of if it, if you do it this much, you have a percentage of, you know, could go two feet this way or two feet that way or, um, I mean I think that's a great method.

Um, and, and the fact that it, you know, you did it so late in life, you discovered that is pretty, is pretty cool.

Bob Labbe: Yeah, it is. And, and one thing you, one thing I tell you in the book is according to the PGA rule, rule five, you can, you can practice after you finish a hole. As long as you don't impede the progress of the people behind you, you can put your ball down on the green and you can practice putting that ball to reestablish the distance the ball travels per entry retraction. So if, if the sun has come out and dried up the greens and they're getting faster, you can, every I, I tell people every three or four holes. Put your ball down, practice, see what the, if the change is good, and if it's changed from 12 feet to 16 feet per inch, you put that on your scorecard and you take it to the next hole. So those things, like they, you know, on a very hot summer day in the south,

uh, the sun's beaten down

and you know, it's burning up the grass. So they're watering those greens with a fire hose and the, they're, the greens become very wet. So that makes 'em more difficult to put because they're slower. But you can use that rule five and go in and practice every three or four holes with a couple balls and reestablish what that travel distance is per inch of retraction.

Rob Valincius: Now, do you think there's a mental component to lag putting that people tend to ignore?

Bob Labbe: Yeah. I, I think that, um, people that, uh. Try to put the ball a long distance. Um, they, they generally don't do well, number one, because, well, they don't play golf as often as the pros do. You know the go, the pros are paying, playing golf at least six outta seven days a week and four days in competition.

Rob Valincius: Yeah.

Bob Labbe: And, and so they're kind, that's their life.

That's their job, you know, and, and they, they have to be good at what they're doing. Well, most people that I know of, uh, even in, even in my retirement, uh, years, uh, the 20 years I was a member of a, a nice club, I only played three 18 hole rounds a week. But that's a lot of golf for a, for an amateur.

And I was, you know, I had had a good handicap and all that, but the average golfer doesn't get out on the golf course, but maybe once a week or once every two weeks.

And so he doesn't have that hi hysteresis or memory of what he did the last time to take it to the next next round of golf and. He doesn't have that. He might, if you're a good athlete and you got that feely, touchy type of motion in your, in your body, you can be a good putter and you don't need my method. But most people, when they have a long putt, they either hit it too hard, muscle up and hit it too hard, or they baby it and hit it too short, and then they end up being 10 or 15 feet away from the hole. They make their second putt and they miss that, and they end up putting three, putting or four putting a green, which just pairs up their score.

It ruins their score for the day, because putting can be, as we said, 50% of the game.

Rob Valincius: Wow. Um, well, all right, so, so, you know, say I'm a new, I'm a new golfer. I'm just getting into it. I'm not gonna be able to get out there and, and, um, you know, go. Thank you. Go out. You know, two, three times a week. Right? But I wanna practice at home. Is there, um, is there a way that someone could practice lag, putting at home?

Um, you know, is it good to practice outside in the grass? Is it, can you, can you have it like in a room? Like what's, what's a good way to practice without ne necessarily being on the course?

Bob Labbe: Well, um, I have some indoor outdoor car, uh, carpet in my basement. Okay. And during, during the winter months when I'm in the, my suburb home in St. Louis,

uh, there. Gets cold there.

gets very, we had, we had a lot of snow three weeks, weeks ago as well.

That's why, that's why I'm in Puni Goda, Florida now because it's

Rob Valincius: Smart move. That's a playing, playing golf.

Bob Labbe: Yeah. Playing golf and, yeah. And so, yeah, I have a, a, a 50 foot runway in my, in my basement that allows me, in my carpet for my individual power factor, uh, for every one inch of retraction, my ball travels 11 feet on my carpet and my wife's individual power factor for that same carpet. She tra her ball travels seven and a half feet for every inch of traction. So we go downstairs during the winter when we're in St. Louis and practice on, on the carpet downstairs. And if you got indoor, our car, Berber carpet, anything that's a a, a nice surface. Uh, it's hard to, it is hard to put on deep plush though. That's like putting in the first cut of rough, you know.

So, but if you've got a carpet in your basement, in your game room, that allows you some degree of distance, we have 50 feet.

Even if you have 35 feet, it works well because most carpets aren't only, uh, are not gonna, uh, put more than say, one inch of retraction for 10 or 12 feet of run. So you'll be able to practice a, a, a three inch retraction type of putt, and then you can do the shorter ones and, and, and you get a lot, I do a lot of practicing when I'm at home in the winter, in my carpet downstairs.

So, yeah, I, I, and that's in the book and, uh, that's in my video. So, uh, I think that, uh, it's a great idea. Or, you know, uh, you can go, I live in a golf course, so you can get down to their practice green and you can put on their practice green. And so there's, there's lots of ways that you can do that.

Rob Valincius: That's cool. Um, now you're, you're, you know, you're an author. Right. So you're, you're a golfer, you're an author, you're an entrepreneur. Um, what was your writing process like? Like how long did it take you to write? Is it something you scribbled for 20 years and you're like, ah, I gotta go back and look at my notes?

I know that happens a lot. Like, what was that writing like for you?

Bob Labbe: Well, um, you hit, almost hit the nail on the head. I, I started this, uh. Process out of writing this book way back in 1997. Okay. When I was an early on golfer and, and, uh, I, I, as I told you, I had to, I had to develop a method that worked because my long distance putting was killing my score. I was such a poor, long distance putter.

And then I came up with the idea engineer, okay, physics, engineering, mechanics, force friction. We can make all these things work. And then I went back and said, Hey, Edward Stimson developed a stent meter. Uh, back in 1935 at, uh, the Oakmont, uh, US open and of course the stent meter they use today on virtually every, every, uh, pro tour, uh, around the world. And that tells you the relative speed of the green. They put three balls in a groove on a, on a tube, and it lifted up and let the balls roll off onto the green and see how far they travel. And that becomes the speed, the green for the day on that course. And for the pros that are, they're playing on fast greens.

They're normally between, uh, 12, 13, 14, but it's a relative number. And I took that idea and I said, okay, if they, if you can get a relative number for the speed of green, you can get a quantitative number as well, because, and that's how I, with that stim, Edward Stimson's thought I took that along with my engineering background and developed the method of quantitative putty. And so, uh, it. It should have been, it should have been obvious years and years ago that that was a way to conceivably put, but, uh, I had to develop that method because I was a poor putter and so many people saw me along the way. Uh, I started taking notes when I did something. I was at the, um, um, course in, uh, Auburn, Alabama on the RT Jones tour and playing with a bunch of 12 guys. We went, there's a bunch of courses in Alabama called the R Rt Jones Tour, and I was on a, I had a 93 foot putt on a terrace, three terrace green, and I was walking off the, to see exactly how far I was set up my putt, hit the ball using my quantitative method. The ball went down, each terrace went in the hole. And I was with a fellow named Mike Beck, and he says, uh, I said, um, he said, that was a great putt, Bob. And I said, well, thank you, Mike. I said, I was kinda lucky. He said, no, no, no, no. That was not lucky. I saw what you did. What you need to do is write a book. Okay? And I laughed and I said, you know, well, I appreciate what you're saying.

I, I'm just developing this method right now, and I gotta make sure before I put anything in writing that it's repeatable and it's accurate and it's linear and that anybody can do it. So anyway, through the next 20 years of my life, while I was playing my, I play a lot of golf with my wife, and she lets me put an extra putt to just verify the accuracy of my calculation. And so I was taking notes this whole time, and I, I must have had 300 notes. Before I started writing my book in back in 19, or back in 2021, and I pulled all those, book those notes out and I put 'em on my desk and I characterizes into who, what, why, when, and where and how. And that's kind of what the name of the chapters of my books are. And then from that, those notes, I compiled a whole bunch of outlines and that's how I wrote my book.

Rob Valincius: That's a beautiful, I I love having authors on the show because I've had, I, I have had, uh, another, I had another guy on, he was a, a skier and he came up with a method for skiing and, uh, he was with friends and, and someone's like, you, you should write a book. You know, and it's, it's like always like. Someone that's a friend of yours or you know, someone that you're hanging out with and they're like, you should write a book.

And then it gets, and you're like, maybe I should write a book. And, uh, you know, and then, and then, you know, you start talking names. And, uh, it's funny, he was, the way he was talking, his buddy was like, no, that's a shitty name, you know, and at least you know, your friends will at least be honest with you, uh, when it comes to that.

But what, what did you, why did you decide to go with it, with the name of your book?

Bob Labbe: Well, I think it, I think it really describes, uh, the book, the methodology of the book. It is truly putting by

the numbers. You've gotta do some simple arithmetic in your head, and very honestly, if you can't do simple arithmetic in your head, this book is definitely not for you. This meth, this method is not, you know, it's like going to the grocery store and saying, I a dollar, uh, two jars of pickles are $3.

So how much is one jar? It's a dollar 50, of course. So you gotta be able to do that kind of quick gymnastics in your head because if you're three feet off the green and you're in, in the fairway, you gotta get through the fringe in the rough and all each one of those areas. And normally speaking, you'll find that most golf courses, the fringe in the fairway, have the same frictional values. So like for instance, most greens that I play on for my IPF, my individual power factor. Or 20 feet of travel for inch of per inch of retraction. Most fringes and most fairways are seven feet of travel for inch of retraction. And most first cuts of rough are two and a half feet of travel for, for inch of retraction.

So I could bumble, bumble, I know exactly if I'm in the first cut cutter rough and I gotta go through the fairway and the fringe and onto the green, I know exactly how far to retract my putter. And I'll guarantee you, I just, the other day I told you I made, I made that, uh, 55 foot foot putt to make an eagle on a par five when I was playing with my wife. And that's exactly how I did, I added the numbers up and boom, I did it.

Rob Valincius: That's awesome. Yeah. 'cause I, it's, when I was buying your book, I always read the reviews and you got great reviews. The only bad reviews you, you got were people going, uh, it's too much math and it's like, read the name of the book people, you know, like I humans now, man. Um, you know, I'm young, you know, I'll be 40 this year.

I'm, I'm young, but. I grew up, I, I, I, I'm proud that I grew up in the, in the time that I did 'cause it, it was still before the internet was big, it was still before cell phones and I got to experience certain things. I think kids now and people now don't, so I just, you'd think with all this technology that we have, that people would be getting smarter.

Um, and it's the exact opposite. It's the exact I've totally knows that. Totally knows that. Yeah.

Um, now about your book, who do you think will benefit the most from your book? Let's do a little plug and we'll kind of, um, start to end there for you.

Bob Labbe: Okay. Well, I, as I, as I've said in, in previous interviews and podcast and whatnot, my book is applicable to all golfers, whether you're recreational, an amateur, a pro, even a touring pro. Because one thing about it is it, it, it gets you in touch of with your, what your individual power factor is for you, your person. And so regardless of whether you're just a recreational or an amateur or a club pro or whatever you are, it puts you in touch with who, what your power is for your body. And even if, even if you don't a adapt, the method that I describe in the book, it put, it puts a plan in your mind. Because see, when I hit my ball and I'm close to the green or on the green when I'm driving up in my cart, I used to walk, but I'm too old for that.

I just have a cart. Now I drive, but I drive up the ball. I already have in my mind what my plan is for putting that ball. If I'm on the fairway and I gotta cut through the fringe and onto the green, I know exactly what I'm gonna do. So it organizes your thinking so that when you make the put, you have a plan before you go to your ball. Okay. And I think that's, that's usable at all levels of the game, be it a recreational, amateur pro or touring pro. It's good for everybody. It's even good for miniature golfers that are playing these miniature golf course because if you go to a miniature golf course and you know, with your wife or your children, and all you gotta do is put that ball on that, on that, um, miniature golf surface, and you, with your IPF, you can see how far it travels and I guarantee you'll beat everybody in your party that night.

Rob Valincius: And you teach and you teach everybody how to find their individual power factor in your book.

Bob Labbe: That's in the book and it's on the videos. That's right. You know.

Rob Valincius: That's awesome. Well, look man, I look, anytime I walk away from a show of mine and I learn something, it makes me happy. So I definitely learned quite a bit about golf that I didn't. Um, so do me a favor and plug away where can my viewers and everybody, uh, where can they find all your stuff?

Bob Labbe: Well, I, first of all, uh, go to bob lobby.com. That's my one website, and then my other website is putting by the numbers.com and my book is available. Uh, it's available in audio form as you well know. It's, uh, on ebook, it's in soft book and it's in hard copy. So there's that many different ways you can have the book. Um, I recommend, as you chose to do, the auto audio book is great for guys who have long waits in line, getting home from work.

It's something to listen to that you can, you know, you don't have to get, get it the first time you listen to it, you can focus in on it. So the audio book's a great book, but after you digest that audio book, then, then I suggest everybody, at least by an ebook or a soft copy and study the book a little bit. And then, then you'll, when you start practicing that you got, you gotta a book to go back to. So that, that's a, that's a great way to do it. And then, you know, you can buy this book on Amazon. You can buy it in, it's in 350 more brick and mortar stores around the country. You can, uh, you can buy it at, uh, gosh, I, uh, it's uh, it's like a. 10,000, uh, stores that are in the net worldwide. So it's,

you know, it's, we, we've been bookstores in Shanghai and Beijing and the Philippines,

Tokyo, Frankfurt. It's all over the world now. Okay. So we're, we're getting a lot, a lot of book sales and, uh, yeah, we've had it, oh, in New York and Philadelphia, Boston, and a lot of Guadalajara. We've had all these book fairs and so it, it's, uh, people are, people are really buying it and reading it. And I, I'm a matter of fact, I'm sending out a memo. Here soon and say, Hey, you read my book and you, you like to send me the, send me the copy with the pre, uh, pre a posting stamp envelope. I'll personalize it for you and, and send it back to you.

You know,

so, I mean, I'm trying to, I'm trying to do things for my, my supporters and uh, and I want everybody to have a better game of golf. That's what, that's what what this is all about is have a method because putting can be as much as 50% of the game. So if you're good at 50% of the game, you don't have to be the best at the other 50% to be a

good golfer. Hey man, I mean, and, and at least, uh, you know, if you're, if you're thinking with numbers here, let's slow down on the beer. All right, guys, I'm looking at you, you guys out there drinking on the course at, at 7:00 AM on a Saturday drink one less, and maybe you're putting, we'll be better with this method.

Rob Valincius: You know, couldn't, couldn't imagine those guys on the ninth hole, you know, you know, after like 12 beers or whatever trying to do some quantitative math, you know, but, uh, one less beer. Better strokes on the put. That's how I look at it. Right. Uh, but listen, um, it was a pleasure having you on. Um, my podcast is Drink o'clock pod on all socials, drink o'clock podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts.

We'll have this episode up, uh, in the near future. And, uh, hey man, let's, uh, let's, let's do this again, uh, for your next book.

Bob Labbe: Okay. Well, I, I don't know if I'm gonna get to the next book because I'm getting, my age is running up there.

But I appreciate you having me on your podcast. Yeah. is the new 62 buddy. You're good, man.

Well, I hope you're right.

Rob Valincius: was a pleasure, Bob. You have a great night.

Bob Labbe: Thank you, sir. Have a good one yourself.

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